Norm F

Thanks very much for the prompt reply. Yes, a simple typo would make sense. I'm still really curious to know if the original MV and HV orders might drop a term -- that could be the definitive answer if so but I don't have access to these resources. In the meantime here's that advertisement from 1940 mentioning Cellon (courtesy of Markus Bodeux). The ad is for celluloid wares in general and not insignia specifically. Cheers. ---Norm P.S. I'm looking forward to your upcoming book on KM badges!

Hi All, I've been discussing elsewhere the theme of the origins of so-called "Celleon" thread used in various insignia, and thought it would be good to draw upon the expertise here. Angolia/Schlicht's Kriegsmarine volumes and various others use the term "Celleon" to describe the thread introduced in early war-time to replace the more expensive metal-based filaments and bullion in various insignia. This thread seems to be a Rayon-type central thread wrapped in a spiral winding of cellophane, giving it an almost metallic sheen and making it a suitable replacement for the more expensive and corrosion-prone metals. However I couldn't find the specific origin of the term "Celleon". Markus Bodeux, who is co-author of an upcoming reference on M?tzenb?nder, uses the the term Cellon thread, without the "e", and when questioned pointed out a 1940 advert in Weyers Taschenbuch der Kriegsflotten for a "Celluloidwarenfabrik", a celluloid wares factory, with "alle artikel aus Celluloid und Cellon". Further digging revealed that Cellon is a trade name for a patented soluble cellulose acetate patented by German chemist Arthur Eichengr?n in 1909, who was working for Bayer. At that time it was primarily for use making non-flammable cinematographic film. He later sold the patent rights to an Englishman which led to the founding of the British Cellon Company in 1913. (From "War and Economic Development" by David Joslin and J. M. Winter, 1976) So back to Germany now. During wartime we also see period use of the term "Cellophan" (another brand-name) to describe these insignia, as evidenced on many original labels on sales displays and insignia. In conclusion I have now seen the brand names "Cellon" and "Cellophan" used in the time period, but never the term "celleon" which appears nevertheless in various seminal reference texts for collectors, notably the Angolia/Schlicht volumes and Gordon Williamson's "Torpedo los!". (Gordon's fabulous tome "Torpedo los!" sometimes uses the generic term cellulose thread, and other times celleon thread.) So what do others think? Is "Celleon" a term coined by collectors in more recent years, or is it a typo from the original "Cellon", or perhaps another original term from the period whose source has not yet been pinpointed? One source that may be very useful would be the original orders in the Marineverordnungsblatt and the Heeresverordnungsblatt, to see if any specific term is used for these ersatz materials for insignia. Some may perhaps find this a bit pedantic, but to me it's a question of historical accuracy, something we all strive for in our collecting. Best regards, ---Norm From "War and Economic Development" by David Joslin and J. M. Winter, 1976:

Ah, the importance of a little research! I just got back from the Toronto Reference Library Annex where I could study the Angolia volumes in more detail (the only copies in Toronto and you can't sign them out), and discovered there at the back of Die Kriegsmarine, volume 3 on p. 442, a bibliography listing the various source manuals and explaining the various acronyms. I never noticed before because they're not listed after volumes 1 and 2. Very satisfying! It's now 16 years after vol. 3 was published and I wonder if John R. Angolia is healthy and hale, and likely to come out with a new printing of this important out-of-print resource. Best regards, ---Norm

Fantastic! My goodness your knowledge base runs wide and deep! Many thanks for the info. So, would I be close in speculating that regulations may originate at various higher levels, eg. OKM, OBdM, Nordsee and Ostsee Commands etc., be announced in publications of OTB or NTB, and all be collected in print in the MV (Marine Verordnungsblatt) as the final compiled manual of Navy Rules and Regulations? And in that case, the primary research sources for such things would be printed OTB, NTB and MV manuals, stored somewhere in some archives to which Angolia would have had access? Cheers. ---Norm

Hoping others will be interested in a discussion clarifying how orders came down from military command regarding Kriegsmarine uniform regulations. In Angolia's Die Kriegsmarine, there are frequent references to the issuing of orders determining various Navy uniform and other regulations with various reference numbers, for example MV 38, No. 181; MV 42, No. 525; OTB 41, No. 6V; OKM MPA 1 1985; ObdM MPA No. 8000 IIIg; RGB1I1938l; BMB 38, No. 53; NTB 39, No.157VIII and so on and on. Some really long ones like "OKM AMA/M Wehr II vk 1011, in OTB 42 No.27 X"! The majority of the orders relating to uniforms have "MV" numbers. Probably the second most common are "OTB" numbers. I can't find a reference explaining these acronyms in any detail, but I think it would be handy to know how these regulations came to be and perhaps a hierarchy of importance or priority for the different regulating bodies. I presume the acronyms stand for various military regulatory bodies or for the rule books themselves, but it would be nice to know what they all stand for and how the system worked. For the Heer uniforms I have seen mention of HV standing for Heeres Verordnungsblatt (Army Ordinances Gazette, seems to be some kind of regulation book), so it occurred to me that perhaps MV stood for Marine Verordnungsblatt but I couldn't confirm this. Also for Heer, HM stands for Allgemeine Heeresmitteilungen (General Army Notices). Is there a Navy equivalent? This is all I have so far for the Navy: OKM - Oberkommando der Kriegsmarine (Navy High Command) ObdM - Oberbefehlshaber der Kriegsmarine (Commander-in-Chief of the Navy) MV - ?Marine Verordnungsblatt? (Ordinance Gazette?) (guessing) OTB - ? NTB - ? RGB - ? BMB - ? Can others please chip in with comments? Regards, ---Norm