GdC26

Very nice, congratulations.

16 minutes ago, Komtur said:

Bingo!

Very strange! I´ve never seen that before ...

?

1 hour ago, VtwinVince said:

OK, so the Jubilee Medal is a match. I think he's wearing the St. Stanislaus on a bar which has yet to be 'updated' by his orders tailor.

From the pic that seems to be the case, but there is a very big gap between 1892, when he received 2nd class, and 1906 when he became Vizeadmiral. And the 2nd class is an award worn at the neck.

That said, eMedals gives 41 x 39 mm for a third class cross and  48 x 52 mm for a commanders cross. Wiki gives 30 mm for the Diamond Jubilee medal partially covering the alleged St. Stanislaus, and the Zentenarmedaille on the left side of it measures 40 mm. The order believed to be a St. Stanislaus is definitely substantially larger than both of these medals, so given relative sizes it seems possible that Schmidt wore the St. Stanislaus second class cross on his bar, rather than at the neck.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

2 hours ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

Hello Sandro,

I'm quite sure there was a Breast Star of the 2nd Class. The 2nd Class could have been awarded with or without the Star. The Rangliste do make this distinction.

Below is Gustav Schmidt's entry in the 1909 Rangliste. You can clearly see the "RSt2" has the addition "mSt" (mit dem Stern). That's why it's odd he would wear the 3rd? Class on his medal bar and also the Breast Star of the 2nd Class. I can find no indication he was awarded the 3rd Class of the St. Stanislaus. Only the 2nd Class in 1892 with the addition of the Star in 1897.

Regards,

Karlo

Fair enough, Karlo.

Problem is that the hidden decoration strongly resembles the St. Stanislaus, and that there are not many orders that look like that. Moreover, mostfo his foreign decorations look to have bene Komtur grade or higher. In the pic Schmidt looks to hold Vizeadmiral rank. When did he achieve that rank, when was he awarded the RSt2mSt and did he have a third class of the order at any time after his appointment as Vizeadmiral?

Regards, 

Sandro

12 hours ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

 

Regarding the St. Stanislaus. How do you know that the second to last medal (covered by the Jubilee Medal) is the St. Stanislaus? And what class would be worn on the medal bar, 3rd? This doesn't make sense, because on the full photo you can see he is wearing the Breast Star of the St. Stanislaus 2nd Class he was awarded (which is confirmed by the Rangliste).

Karlo, 

Vince can no doubt speak for himself, but I agree the order looks like the St. Stanislaus. Moreover, whilst I think there is a first class star of the order, I'm not sure there is in fact a second class star. See: https://antique-photos.com/en/awardsdatabase/russian-empire/424-orden-svyatogo-stanislava.html 

    Kind regards,

    Sandro 

4 hours ago, BlackcowboyBS said:

Hi Sando,

I am 100 percent sure, that he is not wearing the breast star of the Hannovarian Gelphic Order! Even if I truley admire the commanders breaststar that you have posted. 

Hi Stephan, 

I think you’re right. Problem is that even the shape of the star is hard to make out definitively, because it is partially obscured by the Oldenburg FA cross.

13 hours ago, GdC26 said:

Pleasure Karlo.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

 

Hi Karlo,

Some (hopefully) better scans, as requested.

Kind regards,

 Sandro

2 hours ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

I understand. Thank you once again.

Regards

Karlo

Pleasure Karlo.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

4 hours ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

Sandro, thank you very much for this! You have some great photos in your collection!

It's unfortunate not all admirals on the photos are named. I will try and ID the ones I recognize. Do I have your permission to post these photos on other forums, in hopes someone will be able to help us ID them?

Please let me know.

Regards

P.S. Could you please repost this one (below) so the whole photo is visible?

These are the pics I have on file Kriegsmarine Admiral. The admiral is Funke, and his awards are relatively clear in the cut out. I think I posted a further pic of Funke as well, so between these two pics, quite a lot of research should be possible. 

Kind regards, 

Sandro

3 hours ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

Sandro, thank you very much for this! You have some great photos in your collection!

It's unfortunate not all admirals on the photos are named. I will try and ID the ones I recognize. Do I have your permission to post these photos on other forums, in hopes someone will be able to help us ID them?

Please let me know.

Regards

P.S. Could you please repost this one (below) so the whole photo is visible?

Pleasure, and yes, please go ahead. The pic above is a cut out of the pic that immediately precedes it in my posting. I posted it because it shows the decorations a bit better.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

Unrelated, but I was going through my pics in an effort to help out another member an thought these might be of interest to you, Kriegsmarine Admiral.

Unfortunately, no names unless otherwise indicated.

Kind regards,

 Sandro 

2 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

Holy cow, what a beauty!

+1

44 minutes ago, VtwinVince said:

My query should not be falsely interpreted. I also protect my privacy, and I am in close contact with major collectors in Germany who, for security reasons, also keep a low profile. But when someone comes out of seemingly nowhere with really incredible material, of course it peaks my interest, especially if that individual is using a forum as a platform for commercial purposes.

Thanks for clarifying Vince.

Frankly, I don't see the issue. Stephan did a book on Braunschweig, and is doing a book on Hannover. As is often the case in such cases, many of the pieces are probably not his, even if copyright in the pictures is. 

Kind regards, 

Sandro

Ernst August shown wearing Hanoverian orders (plus some others ....?)

22 minutes ago, laurentius said:

I hope I didn't give the impression that these collectors I was referering to were trolls, but rather collectors who keep to theirselves and don't want to share.

 

I agree, we should be happy to be joined by a knowledgeable collector, especially since the fora become less and less active.

 

?

Hmm, this is not good, all this suspicion about someone who recently joined and decided to share his knowledge.

Many collectors these days don't share, not because they are trolls (as Laurentinu's suggests) but because they want to protect their identity, or because discussion on fora has stooped down to the quality of your average Facebook chat. And yes, I do think Stephan owns Schwarzbook Verlag (as is evident from the watermark on his pics) - but I'm not sure how relevant that is to the question whether or not we should welcome his contributions.

I, for one, welcome, Stephan to the Forum. His excellent 3 book series on Braunschweig has been in the works for some time, and its development could be seen on Facebook - I, for one, was alerted to it by our (former) fellow member Medalnet.

Welcome to the club, Stephan, and thank you for your contributions sofar, of which I hope to see many more.

Kind regards,

Sandro

4 hours ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

Hello Sandro. Today I was compiling the list of awards of Vizeadmiral Wilhelm Schack.

On his portrait photo we can see he was awarded the Honour Grand Cross of the Oldenburg House and Merit Order of Peter Friedrich Ludwig. See the sash, circled breast star and cross at the end of the sash.

Quite possible, given the construction of the crown suspension. The pic again is of poor quality, and I would expect the blue field to come out differently in B/W. But the construction of the suspension suggests you are correct.

Quote

In my opinion, Char. Vizeadmiral Hermann Alberts that we discussed above, is wearing the same sash and breast star as Schack. I believe that Alberts is then also wearing the Honour Grand Cross of the Oldenburg House and Merit Order of Peter Friedrich Ludwig and not the GK des M-S Greiffenordens like you suggested before. The sashes look exactly the same in black and white. Do you agree?

That is very much in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? The quality of both pics is poor, but the sash in hte Albert looks lighter to me. That said, yellow has a tendency to come out funny in B/W (check out pics of the Zentenarmedaille), so perhaps you are right. Why don't you convert the color pics I set out above to B/W and compare them to the Alberts pic? That may give better insights than trying to compare the colors on two low res poor quality B/W pics.

Just my 5cts.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

Quote

I think you are probably correct.

I checked the 1914 and 1918 Ranglisten, but saw no match (he had the Russian St. Stanislaw 2nd class which had or could be awarded with star, but since the pic is late war/post WWI that seems unlikely.

I see on your Facebook page he had the Hohenzollern Hausorden Komtur with swords - that order could be awarded with star, too, but that star was worn on the right breast (unusual for German imperial orders, but there you are). Do your sources say whether he was awarded the star as well? 

And are you sure the pic is not a composite, with the orders painted in? The medal bar seems to be at a strange angle compared to the Komturkreuze and the FA cross underneath, and the latter seem to be way to high on hte tunic. 

Kind regards, 

Sandro

Could it be the Commanders cross of the Norwegian St. Olaforden (an order that from memory was ocasionally bestowed on German naval officers)? Hannoverian commander crosses (Guelphic cross and Ernst August Orden) have a similar shape, but since hte kingdom of Hannover was abolished in 1866 after Hannover picked the wrong side in hte Austro-Prussian war that seems less likely.  The Belgian aAlber order commanders cross star has a similar shape, and so does the English Guelphic order commanders grade star . 

But it is very hard to say what shape the star actually has, as part of it may or may not be obscured by the FA cross.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

4 hours ago, Chris Boonzaier said:

Oooooookay......

Easy, Prinz Alfons von Bayern

Let's spics it up a bit with some blue pieces from Ingolstadt's old display:

Not Ludwig III

And since we all love orders ..... 

It's such a pity this display was no longer there last time I visited.

Thanks Kriegsmarine Admiral, your comment about the list is helpful background. If you re-read the thread, you’ll see that I called your gentlemanliness into question after you expressly declined to thank Markus because had not given you anything you did not already have. You have since corrected that, and have now explained that you intend to disclose the list you are compiling, as you have done with a similar list posted elsewhere. If you do that, you are definitely a contributor, and your thank you to Markus reestablishes you as a gentleman. So case closed, as far as I’m concerned.

Kind regards,

Sandro

3 hours ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

I didn't know that he compiled the Seeoffiziere Gesamtliste. I was given this list by another member of the forum. It's my bad then, and I apologize for my mistake.

My badge says I'm an active contributor on this forum. I don't care what other people think "active contribution" means. Sandro implied I only ask for help, while I give nothing in return. That's simply not true. Feel free to check my posting history, and you will see plenty of instances where I also helped and answered other people's questions. Regardless what you think, "asking questions" does indeed contribute to this forum. It opens new topics for discussion, and perhaps sparks the interest of other people. If we don't ask questions, then what's the point of having a forum like this?

I don't intend to quarrel further regarding this, and I won't be responding to any more of these kind of statements. If you can't help me with the question I originally asked on this thread, then please ignore it and move on, but don't attack me and my contribution on this forum. Otherwise, I will ask a moderator to lock this thread.

Regards

Not entirely sure why you're upset, because you asked the question whether questions count as contributions, and two members tell you they think not. BTW, on your own suggestion, I've quickly checked your list of latest posts, and all I could find were positings of you asking for help on identification of medals worn by admirals on pics scanned from the Hildebrandt series. I have no problem with that, but I can not see why you would get upset if people don't consider that a contribution.

A contribution would be me identifying the order of the griffon for you, as I did yesterday, or you sharing the list you have complied, like Markus did. 

Anyway, enough said, time to move on.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

14 minutes ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

I agree, I should have thanked him. If you are reading this, thank you Markus. 

As you can see from my name, I am more of an expert on Kriegsmarine Admirals. And people here rarely have questions about Kriegsmarine Admirals. Don't you think I also contribute by asking questions? I personally do.

Regards

Frankly, no, contributing would mean sharing info you have, not having others answer your questions. I think your're filling your database, on the basis of publicly accessible pics.

Mind you, I have no issue with that per se, but would expect you to thank those who try to help you doing so, even if you don't find their contribution helpful. But I see we at least agree on that now.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

Correct, that is what I meant. And since these do not appear in the Ranglisten, unless you by chance find a very clear pcciture or other unambiguous documentary evidence, all we can probably do is take an educated guess.

Kind regards,

 Sandro

Even then it is simply polite to thank someone who bothers to respond to your question. This is, after all, a gentleman's club. BTW, I've noticesd you mostly ask questions and rarely contribute - how come? 

Kind regards, 

Sandro