Jamie770

Thanks Mervyn, This is a very interesting picture! Some very rare items there - it is great to see them. I have dealt with Ross before - he has a fantastic website which is extremely well put together.

Hi Craig, I have two helmets of this pattern. The one pictured came with the inspectors uniform and is a perfect match to it and the other was purchased seperately several years later. Both helmets are identical in all respects and are certainly not standard PC / PS helmets - they have a leather and silk lining and the helmet edges are cloth (not leather or plastic) bound. The helmet edging matches perfectly to the braiding on the uniform. Neither helmet shows any sign that the centre band has ever been replaced. There are no holes where an additional band has ever been and the black band is of a different pattern to the PC / PS style being significantly wider (but not wide enough to cover where two seperate bands had been removed). Inside one helmet there is the makers stamp of 'J Compton Sons & Webb, London' and inside the leather headband it is stamped with the letters 'TH', a crown below and the date 1963 below the crown. There are also some ink handwritten markings - '7 1/8' and '25' and elsewhere 'MP INSP'. These markings seem to be of the same age as the helmet. Inside the headband of the other helmet (which came with the uniform) is stamped 'RJ', a crown below and the date 1960 below the crown. Both helmets have the chrome helmet plate with the removable ER cypher as per 'Badges of Office' plate 1 E4 identified as 'Inspector (Ceremonial, 1954 - 1973). The helmets plates are original to the helmets, no other plates have ever been fitted. I had thought that the Inspectors two silver band helmet was introduced in the 1980's to allow for recognition in public order situations. I attach a picture of the helmet I have - with the expection of the bands it is identical to the normal PC / PS Custodian helmet of the time. I would be most interested if you know that the Inspectors 'two band' helmet was worn earlier than this period. Many thanks for the information regarding the Ch Insp gold band - I hadn't known this and I should be most interested to see one.

Hi Mervyn, A fantastic and very interesting collection! Thanks for putting them on

Hi Brian, Whilst not connected to your previous buttons, I thought you might be interested in my early Staffordshire helmet. I would think this dates from around 1920

Hi Mervyn, Fantastic truncheon in very good condition - it would be great to see a picture of your High Constables stave. I've never known why Edinburgh used the fouled anchor either, but I'd always wondered if it was because Edinburgh was so closely connected to the port of Leith (albeit Leith had its own seperate police force until 1920)

Hi Mervyn, Yes, the whole uniform comprising the tunic, trousers, sam browne belt and the helmet came from the same source - which was a Wallis & Wallis sale many years ago. All the parts are a perfect colour match and seem to belong together. As a bit of additional information, the trousers have the same style of black braid continued down the side seams. The helmet is well made - far better quality than the standard 'beat' helmet of this period - and judging from its wear seems to be the same age as the rest of the uniform. Interestingly it has the standard chrome helmet plate with a seperate ERII cypher. I've been looking for old photographs of this uniform in service but to date I've never been able to find any. Could the helmet you remember having a black band on the peak possibly have been for a more senior officer?

The fittings are brass with a black coating which, when I was cleaning them with warm soapy water, I felt was most likely to be a fairly thin coat of paint. They have come up to present a quite shiney appearance.

For clarity, I should mention that this constables picture did not come from the book I mention but was an item I missed out on purchasing from Ebay. Apparantly, the photographers studio is noted on the back of the picture as being in Bristol.

Hi, I don't have any close-ups of the furniture unfortunately but I can get some taken perhaps this weekend when I've got a bit more time. The only manufacturers mark I've ever seen on it is the Compton & Webb label inside it.

Further to the discussion above, I attach a photo of the Inspectors No1 dress that I have. This is a quite interesting higher quality tunic with black braid ornamentation at the collar, cuffs and skirts. It was worn with black patent leather Sam Browne belt with snake clasp. The Inspectors quality helmet is a felt covered cork construction with a wide black metal band, chrome rosetop and chrome two piece helmet plate. The helmet's edges are fabric which matches the trim on the tunic, not leather or plastic bound and it has a higher quality leather and silk liner. I think this uniform dates from the late 1950's - 1960's.

Further to my other posts, I thought people might be interested in the Montgomeryshire chained helmet from my collection. This is one of two identical Montgomeryshire helmets I have, both of which were in a very dirty, distressed and 'flattened' condition when I got them. They were found wrapped in newspaper and partly stuck to wallpaper in a cupboard during a house clearance. I think this helmet dates from around circa 1910 and it has an ink handwritten label inside stating "Montgomery PC28 Humphrey"

Many thanks to you all for your comments. Regarding this helmet, the book '150 years Policing of Bristol' published by Avon & Somerset Constabulary in 1986 gives a few pictures of chained helmets of this type in use during the 1920's - unfortunately none are totally clear but I attach a photo of what I believe to be a Bristol officer wearing this style of helmet. Regarding the Met Ch Supt's helmet, the cypher is definately George VI it is just the angle of the helmet that makes it look like George V.

Hi Mervyn, I've sent you an email which gives you a bit more info about me. Regarding my background, I'm afraid that when I left school I was too 'vertically challenged' to join Lothian & Borders finest being only 5'7'' or so. Ironically, nowadays I see plenty regular officers who are shorter than me!. However, I did join as a 'Special' and served 13 years in the bad-lands of East Lothian which has a number of quite rough little communities. I preferred to serve outside of Edinburgh because the regular guys were thin on the ground in the County areas and were glad to have some assistance.

Hi Mervyn, Many thanks for this additional information, it is very useful to know. I have other items of Met Police, including an Inspectors No1 dress uniform complete with black sam browne belt and the helmet which I believe went with it - I shall post a picture in due course.

I'm not sure as to whether this would have been a private purchase item or not. Nor have I ever seen a photo of one actually being worn - if anybody has one I'd be really interested to see it! Similarly, I've never seen any reference to this style of helmet being worn by any other force, although that may explain the lack of the force name on the helmet plate. Alternatively, as the basis of the helmet plate is the standard 'generic' military officers item, perhaps not having the force name was a way of getting a high quality plate without the (presumably quite high) cost of setting up to manufacture what would have been a very small number of helmet plates. The band around the body is the same links as the chinchain, just without the velvet backing and attached directly to the helmet. As an aside, there is a picture of a similar helmet in the reference pages of 'Badges of Office'

As per my last post, I attach a picture of the Edinburgh City senior officers ceremonial helmet. Unusually the fittings are all gilded whereas the standard rank and file officers ceremonial helmets had white metal fittings. Tom Archibald's book on the history of Lothian & Borders Police has pictures of senior officers wearing what appears to be this style of helmet albeit that they are in the background of the photograph and the detail of the helmet is not totally clear.

Hi Mervyn, That is a fabulous helmet - thanks for posting the picture. I will attach a couple of pictures of other forces senior officers helmets from my collection, the first being Newcastle and the second being Edinburgh City. Neither are as old as your Victorian Birmingham Police but I reckon they date from around 1920 - 1930ish. I'd welcome any comments or information anybody might have.

This is a Metropolitan Police Chief Superintendants Ceremonial helmet - dating from between 1938 - 1952. This is a very high quality helmet manufactured by Compton & Webb with gunmetal coloured fittings and a multi piece helmet plate which, interestingly, does not carry any 'Metropolitan Police' wording but has the motto of the Order of the Garter. The chinchain and centre band are off a roped pattern and the chinchain hooks up at the back when not in use in a similar way to the older military helmets.

Hello everyone, I've just joined the forum and have greatly enjoyed reviewing the pictures of items from other peoples collections. I thought I'd put up a picture of a Bristol chained helmet from my collection. Although it is not in perfect condition, I think it is quite rare and dates from around 1920. If this works (I'm not very technical!) and if other collectors would wish then I shall try a few more.