arb

Chris,

Ich habe die Jahrgänge 1918-1920. Was oder wen suchst Du?

Andy

Sandro,

He was born 12.05.1868 in Castell (Unterfranken) and died 08.07.1939 in Hochburg-Ach. He was married to Amalie Prinzessin zu Löwenstein-Wertheim-Freudenberg. After attending Gymnasium, he voluntarily joined the 1. Ulan. R. as a Fähnrich on 19.08.1886. He became Adjutant of the IV. Armee Insp. on 19.09.1900. He was promoted Oberst on 11.10.1914 and Gen. Maj. in 1918 (sorry, no exact date).

Andy

Jens,

I think you have a photo of the commanders of the 223. ID around March 1918.

The 67. Inf. Brig. had three regiments assigned to it at that time- IR 144, IR 173 and Ersatz Inf. R. 29.

The Führer of IR 144 was Major Thümmel as you note, and Major Hermann Wülfing was Führer of IR 173. Oberst Wilhelm Alberti (*15.05.1853) retired from Gren. R. 5 as commander of the first battalion on 24.04.1904 "m. Charakter als Oberstlt." He was called back during the war and served as commander of Ers. Inf. R. 29 as noted in the Ehrenrangliste on p. 703. I cannot identify the Hauptman, though he must have been the divisional adjutant.

A very nice photograph and we are lucky that someone took the time to add the names on the back!

Andy

Unfortaunately, I no longer live in Germany, but in the US.

I've sent you a PM with my email address. We can continue the conversation via e-mail if you care to.

Andy

Andy ,

That is some great research .Where did you get the info.

In my research I found him in the 1912 Rank List still attached to DSWA as a ObLt.Then I could not trace him any further .

Following your information I have found a Hptm. Horn (promotion date 01.10.1912) attached Oberschlesisches Inf Regt 63 and it is noted that he is serving at Reichskolonialamt.Then as you said in the 1914 rank list he is in GR6 and it is noted in I.R. 63 that he was transferred tho GR6.

I had no way of finding the thread from DSWA to GR6 .I would not have known his promotion date.

With the right sources, tracing a career is not that difficult. After more than 18 years of collecting information (and, more importantly, books), I have a good handle on the vast majority of first names for the Prussians as well as dates and places of birth. The Militär Wochenblatt are absolutely indespensible for finding exact dates of transfers. etc. Also, when one learns how to read a Rangliste, many things become much easier to follow. At the end of each regiment's listing in the Rangliste is a small paragraph in fine print which details the transfers, retirements, etc within that regiment since the publication of the last Rangliste. This helps immensely as one tries to follow an officer's movements within the army. It takes time, but in the end it's worth the effort.

I can not over emphasize the absolute requirement of assembling as comprehensive a library as possible. It's cliché to say that knowledge is power. However, without significant resources or access to such resources, the type of research demonstrated here is simply not possible.

With the help of the internet and great fora such as this, other can enjoy the benefits of the research a few of us conduct for the sheer joy of wrestling seemingly nameless, long dead Prussians from obscurity.

Andy

Your man is Ernst Horn (*13.9.1876 †00.10.1925). At the beginning of the war he was a company commander in Gren. R. 6. He departed the Sch.Tr. f. DSWA on 31.05.1912 and was attached for training to the "Landesaufnahme" (surveying section of the General staff) the next day, 01.06.1912. He was promoted captain and attached to the Reichs Kolonialamt on 01.10.1912. On 27.01.1914 he was transferred to GR 6 as a company commander.

Andy

Andreas,

Hptm. Georg Hauß (*17.02.1871 †15.01.1941) war Komp. Chef (9. Komp.) d. HKA ab 27.01.1912. Vorher war er Komp. Chef im IR 130. Er war Kommandeur d. IR 25 18.09.1918 bis 03.02.1919. Zum Orden kann ich leider nichts sagen (da bin ich oft überfragt!)

Andy

The second sword was given as a gift by one officer named Kemmer to another, Vondran. (Kemmer s/l Vondran)

They most likely went to the same Kriegsschule from fall 1909 to May or Jun of 1910 and exchanged swords at graduation.

They were both commissioned as Lts. on 16.06.1910 with a date of rank of 20.06.1908. Kemmer went to IR 88 and Vondran went to IR 99. In late 1913 Kemmer transferred to IR 97 and then by spring 1914 had left the army.

At the beginning of the war, Vondran was temporarily detached from IR 99 to FAR 84. He was killed in action 25.08.1914. According to the casualty lists, his first name was Paul and he was born in New York!

Andy

He was promoted Leutn. on 10.08.1914 without a commission. When he entered the Reichswehr he was given a date of rank of 01.10.1917 as a Leutn.. He was promoted to Hptm. 01.04.1933. In May 1933 he was on the staff of the 1. Division in Königsberg; in October 1935 he was commander of the 14th company (Panzerabwehr) of Inf. R. 56 in Ulm, and he assumed command of Pz. Abw. Abtl. 6 on 01.10.1938.

Andy

Very nice document. It is signed by Siegfried Frhr. von der Borch (27.07.1855-15.03.1933). He assumed command of this brigade on 09.03.1912 after having served as commander of Gren. R. 7.

This is the first time I've seen a signature with "Freiherr" spelled out!

Andy

Based on saschaw's quote and the fact that it was awarded to active officers and Badener who were commissioned as an officer while assigned to a unit of the XIV. AK ..., I would assume that Fähnriche etc were not/not authorized this decoration as they were not yet active officers. Make sense?????

Andy

James,

In 1957 a law was passd in Germany allowing the wear of military awards made from 1939-1945. This law set forth how the awards would look (no swastika) and be worn, to include miniatures. That year has become shorthand for the modified versions of Wehrmacht awards manufactured and worn after the war.

Andy

Chris,

He is listed in the 1914 Rangliste, but no first name (pf course) or anything to help find a first name. Some of these officers will have to remain anonymous for a little while longer!

Andy

Chris,

Melmer's first name was Christian. The certificate is signed by Albert Cramer (20.04.1854-00.07.1936)

Andy

Dave,

I believe he certainly would have recieved the centenary medal given the fact the entered service in 1896.

As far an the antedated commission, that was fairly common. Given that promotions were based solely on seniority, it was the one way in which officers identified as fast burners could rise in rank to take positions of greater responsibility at a younger age more quickly. Given how long the average captain stayed at that rank, a two year jump made a significant difference.

Most often, they received the back-dated promtion when they transfered to a new unit (or were transferred in order to give them a back-dated commission) so as not to create issues within the regimental officer corps. It might prove awkward for a captain to one day out rank another to whom he had previously been junior. Starting fresh in a new regiment could avoid such situations altogether. A rather clever way to move the right people along without compromising the concept of seniority.

Andy

Unfortunately, I do not have a Stammliste entry from Hptm. Büttner, Nevertheless, looking through ther MWB, he was a Port. Fähnr. d. Res. d. GR 12 when on 18.06.1895 he left the army, only to return to IR 59 with his commission (date unknown) as a Port. Fähnr. on 20.05.1896, clearly making him eligible for the centenary medal. He was promoted Sek.Lt. on 17.04.1897.

Andy

By my count, there were 51 active duty officers in May 1914 with a date of rank as a Sek.Lt. of 17.04.1897. Of these, I have Stammlisten entries for 11 officers. I'll use Hptm Kurt von Chmielewski from IR 28 to serve as a representative example of what I found. He entered IR 17 on 09.12.1895, was promoted Fähnrich on 18.07.1896 and Sek.Lt. on 17.04.1897. The other 10 have a very similar background. So, I would say that he was certainly authorized the centenary medal, as he was on active duty 22.03.1897.

According to the law governing pensions of active duty officers time is service was calculated from the date an individual entered service :

Als Dienstzeit wird nur die im aktiven Heeres abgeleistete Dienstzeit gerechtnet. ...Nach dem Reichs Militärgesetz vom 02.05.1871, § 38 gehören zum aktiven Heere:

A. Die Militärpersonen des Friedenstandes, und zwar:

1. die Offiziere, Ärzte und Militärbeamten des Friedenstandes vom Tage ihrer Anstellung bis zum Zeitpukt ihrer Entlastung.

So, I believe that in the instance of Hptm. von Chmielewski his start date towards his 25 years began on 09.12.1895 rather than 17.04.1897, the date he was commissioned. This would have made him eligible for his DA 16 months earlier than your calculation.

Andy

A few additions:

#85 (IR 18) is Karl Wilsdorff

#86 (IR 107) is Hans von Zanthier

#90 (IR 116) is Heinrich von Westernhagen. He was commander of II./IR 115 in May 1914

#91 (IR 137) is Leutn. Weyer (no first name)

Andy

Dave,

Thanks very much for the sources!

Dave,

Great work on the reservists. May I ask what your sources for the information are?

Andy

#65 Rittm. d. R. von Killisch-Horn (and that's the cleanest signature I've seen in years!)

#66 Hptm. d.R. Mühlenpfordt (1914 Leutn. d.R. d. IR 72)

#67 Traugott Zander

#68 Hans von Dewall

#69 and 70 Leopold Frhr. von Ledebur

Andy

I wonder what where they got the detailed information.

It was published by the veteran's organization of the regiment, so they would have had access to all the regimental records, making this as official as we could ever hope to see.

A few days ago, I received a book in the mail, the likes of which I have never seen before or even heard of. It is the "Stammrolle ehemaliger Angehöriger des sächsischen 8. Infanterie Regiments "Prinz Johann Georg" Nr 107." (Standort Leipzig), herausgegeben vom Königl. Sächs. Militärverein "107er" zu Leipzig: and contains information on nearly 1,800 former members of the Saxon IR 107. It was published in 1896.

What makes this book most noteworthy is that it contains biographical/military career infomation on all of the former members of the regiment beginning in 1867- to include NCOs and enlisted soldiers, as well as one-year volunteers.

Common wisdom holds that information on enlisted soldiers is not available- this book puts an intersting dent in that notion.

Should anyone desire infornation from this book, just let me know.

An example of what the book contains:

Leibnitz, Karl Wilhelm. 1.IV. 1850, 1.X.1870 eingest. bei der 3. Comp. des Ers Bat. 107 Regt., 10.I.1871 z. 10. Comp. 107 Regt. vers., 1.X.1876 entl. als Sergeant. Feldz. 1870/71. Schl.: Bel. v. Paris. KD 70/71. LDA2. Vorst. des Kgl. Sächs. Mil. Ver. Kameradschaft Föhla b. Rittersgrün i. Erzgeb.- Föhla b. Ritettersgrün i. Erzgebirge, Waisenhaus Verwalter.

Andy

Thank you very much 'arb' - that is absolutely great.

Bad form on my part for not "signing" my posts. My name is Andy and I am glad to have helped.

And #2...

#58 Richard von Conta. He recieved the PLM on 15.10.1916 as commanding General of the Carpathian Corps (20.07.1916-01.01.1918) and the oak leaves on 26.03.1918.