Solomon

@ Alpha D.
Very difficult to answer.
Apparently there are many more fakes on the market, than original pieces.
I added a scan of the detailed rose (the background is gold) and the letter L.
The fakes I know (sold on ebay and at a known trader) differ especially here from the original pieces.
A third criteria might be the crown, but this is difficult to fix in a scan.

@ Michael

The first model without enameled arms were officially only produced by Carl Büsch, Hannover.
So all should look more or less the same.

But I can confuse you know even more...I also have a 2nd piece here...an original one, but clearly made by Godet, Berlin.
It differs especially in the letter L and the crown.
Luckily I had access to the archive...Godet delivered in 1910 exactly 10 pieces to the prince, but these ones weren´t awarded anymore, as the prince decided to renew his Leopold order and changed the cross-arms to the blue enameled one.

My piece has exactly the same designed letter L between the arms and the same needle-system like the official 2nd model.

It might be a unique piece and without this knowledge (delivery etc) I wouldn´t have bought it for sure.

BTW, with the switch to the 2nd model, the prince also officially switched from Büsch to Godet.

Sorry for the confusion :-P

@ Joseph

As a Lippe-Detmold collector, I have to answer "priceless", of course.
There are so many (expensive) fakes especially of this rare order in the market, that you hardly can define a right pricing.

In general I would guess 3,500 - 4,500 USD for a proofen original piece.

@ Chris
This order was awarded by duke Leopold IV. zur Lippe-Biesterfeld, beside the usual house-order.
It was never awarded with swords and the criteria were (according to the statues) extraordinary merits related to the prince and his family or to the principality Lippe-Detmold itself.

By the way...I forgot to show you his original home :-)

Ah, I forgot Friedrich Multhaup´s ribbon bar...He was "Fuerstlicher Bauverwalter.

7 out of 9 awardes are from Lippe-Detmold :-)

And another one...Feldarzt August Borchard

A rather usual one from Lippe-Detmold...

And my favorite Lippe-Detmold bar from reverend Friedrich Lappe...the house-order in the middle had previously swords, before it was re-awarded :-)

Yes, I can confirm, that´s a good one. I have the same from my great grandfather...typical post-war badge.

Hi gents,

before I have to sell it, I just want to share with you an ultra-rare order, which you can hardly find on the market.

It´s the

Lippe-Detmold Leopoldorden cross with crown 1st model

This order was awarded only 6 times between 1908 and 1910.
In 1910 prince Leopold IV. decided to change the design into an enameled version with blue cross-arms.

This version is a silver cross and the background of the enameled rose in the center is gold.

Unfortunately there are some copies on the market...so just be aware

Best regards

Roman

@ Paul

Yes, it was suggested to Leopold IV., but he decided not to donate his own order with swords.
Nevertheless Carl Büsch, Hannover produced and delivered 12 Bronce medals with swords and 6 Silver medals with swords to Leopold IV.

Hi gents,

I would like to show a really rare little bird from Lippe-Demtold.

It´s a Bronze medal with swords (!) from the Leopoldorder Lippe-Detmold.

The little bird came in its original green-gray paper case wrapped in paper.
On the paper case it´s written "Bronze Med z. L.O. mit Schwerter"

This medal with swords was never donated or awarded, but Carl Büsch, Hannover delivered
12 pieces as preproduction to the Prince of Lippe-Detmold.

This little fellow is for sure one of these 12 pieces.

Hope you like it like me :-)

Regards
Roman

Hi Eric,

it got a little better, than it already had been.
This nice little cross came together with his "normal" twin...
I will also show the normal twin, as it is always good to have some pictures to compare.
The normal one is by the way in mint condition, except the box, which is done :-)

Although some may get a heart-attack (like I almost got, when I saw this one), I will show you a really rare bird, just landed on my desk:

It´s a war-merit cross for heroic deeds....but something seems to be wrong

A closer look shows the entire desaster....Zimmermann printed a 800 on the needle !!!!!

To become serious, this cross is a ultra-rare bird. Between 1916-1918 Zimmermann produced a few crosses in Silver gilden (with 800), mostly awarded by high ranked officers, Princes or politicians (like Ludendorff or Bismarck).
These crosses are 2 gramm heavier than the usual ones.
Although I don´t know the exact number, I guess there were not more than 40 crosses in Silver gilden.
And to complete the desaster...this special cross comes in a ultra-rare box with printing on it.
Beside this box, I only know so far one other box .

Greets

Roman

19 hours ago, ccj said:

Thank you Roman,

 

i have always wanted one of these but they're not too commonly found.

im trying to get this one.

Good luck....from time to time a nice one (original awarded and not the usual ebay-crap) is offered.

But the difficult part regarding this unique crosses is to find an original award document :-)

I only have two...plus this blank one...

I´ve just seen this cross at Bretzendorfer on yesterday, too.

Looks like a good one (officially awarded during 1914-1918)  from Zimmermann and as you said with a repaired needle-system.
The price is acceptable.

Regards
Roman

Wow, thank you for the picture...I count at least four enameled Lippe-awards :-)

Hello gents,

I just realized, that I didn´t share so far this ribbonbar here, although I already have it a long time in my collection.

This ribbonbar belongs to Oldwig-Albrecht von Natzmer, born 29th November 1879 and died 30th May 1927.

Career:
since 1893 1st Garde-Reg. zu Fuß as Seconde-Lieutnant
since 1902 Oberleutnant
in 1908 promotion to Ordonanzoffizier at the Prince Lippe-Detmold
since 1909 Hauptmann
since 1912 Flügeladjudant of Prince Leopold IV. of Lippe-Detmold
since 1916 Major
since 26th November 1918 retirement

The ribbonbar shows
- iron cross 2nd class 1914
- war merit cross Lippe-Detmold
- red eagle order 4th class
- Centenar-medal
- Bavarian military merit order 4th class
- Saxony Albrecht-order 3rd class with crown
- Mecklenburg Greifen-order 3rd class with crown
- Brunswig house-order 3rd class
- Saxony Ernestinian house-order
- House-order Lippe-Detmold 4th class A or Schaumburg-Lippe house-order 4th class
- Norwegian Olav-order 3rd class.

Oldwig-Albrecht von Natzmer also received
- Lippe Detmold Kriegervereinskreuz
- Lippe Detmold Officers cross
- Lippe Detmold house order 2nd class with swords at the ring
- Lippe Detmold Leopold-order 2nd class

Unfortunately I don´t have more information or a photo of Oldwig-Albrecht von Natzmer...maybe someone can add something, which might be interesting?

Best regards
Roman
 

Thanks for the compliment, Paul.

It's my site :-)

By the way, I have a picture of a 3rd original one, which I sold some time ago (because on the above shown ones I have the names who got it and the sold one was nameless).

I´ve seen this topic too late.

Singnalcorps45´s shown cross is unfortunately a known fake, from time to time sold on Ebay.

Only C.F. Zimmermann produced the awarded crosses, therefore all crosses are looking the same.

Attached you will find pics of my both crosses. Both are 100 % original, one is coming directly from private.

Regards

Roman

P.S. Thanks for liking my webpage :-)

The LDH2 was post-war awarded (I´m pretty sure about that), but not necessarily produced post-war.

But I´m really struggling with ribbon No. 6 (with the crown on the ribbon). My idea was maybe a Schaumburg-Lippe award, because it is really hard to imagine, that it should be the LDH2, as this award is not linked to a crown at all.

In addition the NC-Lippe cross can be also awarded post-war (until 1921)....which makes the job not easier.

Regards

Roman

Much better picture now...

Now we are moving to phase II:

Is the LDH2 a silver gilden or a real golden one?

The same question needs to be answered for the LD3.

Somehow I have the feeling, that the LDH2 was awarded after 1918...

Sorry, but these pictures are not helping at all, as they are even smaller, than the previous one...

Damn...looks easy, but in fact it isn´t....without a closeup on the ribbonbar, I cannot step forward.

But as you already assumed, this looks pretty much like a guy from Lippe-Detmold.
Do I see a 1897- and 1905-medal Lippe-Detmold at the end of the ribbon bar?

By the way, I will forward my address to you...you can already send it to me :-P

Sure, it´s a wartime ribbon...but the way the ribbons are mounted (Saxony before Prussia) clearly doesn´t match with Tasche.

So the only way to find out is to read 22,000 receipts :-P

Very nice, Albrecht Tasche would be glad.

But I doubt, that the ribbonbar fits to Tasche....the earlist award of Tasche was the 1905-medal, which is completely missing at the ribbon bar.

And he got the SH3 earlier than the SA3X (as he didn´t list the SA3X in 1916, when he received the cross for heroic deeds).

And finally the ribbonbar is a typical Saxon-style, wearing first the awards from Saxony followed by the Prussian IC.

Albrecht Tasche was a Lippe-Detmold citizen, who never would have done this.

Hello David,

here you are...a close up on the Detmold-awards and on the red eagle order.

All miniatures are around 16 mm...very small, but extremely nice detailed.

The needle at the chain is marked with SILBER and I´m not 100 % sure, but for the house order seems to be a golden piece.

But unfortunately I have to correct myself: The Leopold-order 3rd class in this version was acc. to Schwark only 16 times awarded!!!

Regards

Roman

Sure, I will put them on a scanner on tomorrow...