RobW

Tim & JM, This particular ebay vendor has been selling vic items that would best be described as of a 'dubious' nature. Beware. Regards, Rob

And here are the close-ups. The 'LA' mark on the obverse, in between the head and the hand, is a bit difficult to see but the one on the reverse, just after 1919 is readily noticeable. Note the darker bronze finish. I hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello JM, It is not untoward or unusual to see the Czech and Japan vics turning up on ebay. A close look at the sellers location indicates, in some cases, either the Czech Republic or Japan so there shouldn't be any trouble there. Having said that there are also vendors in the U.S. and Europe selling reproductions and other copies of a more dubious nature so you do have to beware. The real trick with the Japan vic is to try and find them with their box in good condition, and then there is the issue of the corresponding award certificate. As for the Czech type 1 vics you are right in stating that there never seems to be any on ebay. The reason they are rarely seen is because they are scarce. They are a particularly hard item to obtain and even the collectors I know in Prague, Czech Republic have indicated they are not seen on market very often. One collector in Prague stated he hadn't seen one for a couple of years. I would be patient as they still turn up from time to time. The Czech type 1's have been seen in both a shiny and matte bronze finish, as well as a much darker bronze. They are generally seen on a cylinder suspender. I have posted pics of one of mine, with a shiny bronze finish, previously on the Czechoslovakia WW1 Victory Medal thread, which is the 'Central & Eastern European States: Non Communist Era' topic. Regards, Rob

Hello JM, Happy to be of help if it is of use. Your story of the buttons is a good one as the corollary of it also has implications in the vic series. There are many people in the various collecting fields that are happy to watch and learn but not contribute and there are also many times when cheap items are sold as something 'rare' and the word doesn't get out. In a lot of cases the collectors that are caught by these 'rare' items are those new to the field or those that don't possess any number of the standard references for their field. As far as the vic series goes, and in addition to Mr Laslo's 2nd Edition book, if you don't already have them I would recommend attempting to locate a copy of the following references: * 'The Gleim Medal Letters 1971-1997' published by the OMSA, OMSA Medal Notes No.5, 1998 * A number of vic related journal articles from 'The Medal Collector' (OMSA Journal) produced in the early to mid 90's. * 'Battlefield Credits and Campaign Awards' by Planchet Press (No 21B). The book lists the entitlement of units to battle streamers for their colours but it also has relevance because of the corresponding entitlement of battle streamers to victory medal clasps of units in the A.E.F. These references would expand your information base on top of what is contained in places like this and other forums. Your point about proper and full exchange of information is a good one however I do think that the vic collecting field still has collectors that have the information but are reticent to share. Hopefully that will change. This forum is a good place for those of us who think the information should get out so I would encourage all to keep posting. You are indeed adding to it as it does generate discussion. Regards, Rob

JM, This clasps looks similar to that which is in Mr Laslo's book describing an 'ARMY OF OCCUPATION' clasp produced by the U.S. firm of Bailey, Banks & Biddle (BBB), which appeared in a 1939 catalogue. It uses the same typeface and has the same filled in edge loops and smaller stars. I have not, however, been able to confirm this yet. Regards, Rob

To all, Same manufacturer; same design, thin backstrap, different clasp. Regards, Rob

Hello JM, There is nothing unusual in the slight variations in these clasps. The U.S. Mint provided the 3 firms (Art Metal Works, S.G. Adams, & Jos Mayer) contracted to produce the vic's as well as the clasps with the hubs from which their own working dies would have been produced. It is likely that the slight variations occurred in these working dies but as they were all based on the same design hubs there shouldn't be large differences. Another variety of the official SOMME OFFENSIVE clasp has been noted that has neither the comma nor a period; just a space. Of course this doesn't take into account those Army clasps actually produced by the U.S. Mint which have so far eluded exact identification. These official clasps have also been seen with, and without, spacers. Regards, Rob

Hello JM, As far as the clasps are concerned on the repro I posted I should clarify that the CHAMPAGNE-MARNE clasp looks like it did have spacers and they appeared to have been broken off. That would solve the issue of different clasps with or without spacers. I have seen the entire set of official clasps reproduced in this style indicating the same manufacturer, even down to the DEFENSIVE SECTOR clasp having no spacers. I hope this clears things up. Regards, Rob

Hello JM, For comparison here is a French repro vic with some confirmed French produced clasps. This particular French repro has no edge markings on the rim of the medal. Note that it is suspended by a French made ribbon and not the usual U.S. ribbon. The differences are apparent when you place them side by side. Although it is hidden the medal suspender is produced by the 'N.S. Meyer Inc' firm and is marked as such. It has a combination of both reproductions of official clasps as well as an unofficial clasp. On the back of each clasp (not the backstrap), in small impressed capitals, is 'MADE IN FRANCE' making these of later in the 1930s vintage. As can be seen the backstraps are of a uniform narrow width. I hope this is of use. Due to impending work commitments I'll shortly be having a longer break. Let's see if others join the party. Regards, Rob

To all, To continue the Australian bit here are some WO1 DPCU rank slides. I have included two as the background on one of them makes it difficult to see the detail. I suppose that is why they are worn on the combat uniform. More to follow of service dress, and general duty dress when I have time to find them. Regards, Rob

JM, I am aware of at least 4 different French manufacturers of reproduction official U.S. vic clasps as well as some unofficial clasps. All have smaller stars and backstraps of varying but generally thinner width. When I have the time I will dig some out and post pics. As for the clasps with the larger stars; the only comment I have is that there is still some contention that they are indeed French made. All the collectors in France that I have spoken to, and in posts on a number of French forums, feel that they are of contemporary U.S. production from the 1980s. These clasps are regularly seen on U.S. vics with the modern nylon ribbon. If you could post pics of the reverse backstrap that would help. It does bring to the forefront the issue that there is very little information out there on who produced the various different sets of engagement and country clasps for the U.S. vic. Time will tell with more information always coming to light. Happy to hear from other U.S. vic collectors who have an opinion!! Regards, Rob

Hello JM, Thanks for the post. It is nice to see that there are other vic collectors out there. I have a few of the French produced U.S. vic reproductions and they have a variety of markings including: * no edge markings. * triangle hallmark and 'BRONZE' on the edge. * square hallmark and 'BRONZE' on the edge. * 'MADE IN FRANCE', large capitals, on the edge. * 'MADE IN FRANCE', in very small capitals on the edge. The medals with the first three markings were generally produced during the 1920s whereas those with the later 'MADE IN FRANCE' markings were known to have been produced in the 1930s to comply with the U.S. Tariff Law of 1931, in which the products had to have a marking displaying the country of origin. This is also dates the 'Made In Italy' repro to the same period. Regards, Rob

So many people watching; so few people posting... To all, Here is are some pics of the not so regularly seen U.S. vic repro type 2 according to Mr Laslo's reference. It is the repro that has 'Made In Italy' on the rim. There are very noticeable die variations on both the obverse and reverse compared to the official strikes as well as the French repro's, which are in themselves, also not seen that often. Regards, Rob

To all, Seems things are a bit quiet around here at the moment. Here is another 'swing-mounted' Great Britain mini group. This time it is without the miniature M.I.D on the vic and has a 1914-15 Star instead of the previously shown 1914 Star & bar. It is a nice small group showing previous service in the Boer War of 1899-1902 indicated by the Queens South Africa medal with 3 clasps. The vic mini also has a very good level of detail. Regards, Rob

To all, To close the loop from the earlier Czech reissue type's here is a reissue type 1. It has a cylinder suspension with a number of minor obverse and reverse die variations compared to the official strikes and the later reissues. Regards, Rob

Hello Kevin, Thanks for the post. That it is a nice Portuguese mini trio. I had previously seen a single Portugal vic mini but it was in very poor shape and without the ribbon. There appears to be a flatter spot on the suspension ring of the Medal For Exemplary Conduct (white ribbon, green stripes). Could you ascertain if there was a hallmark present or was it just a flat spot or worn area? I have a Belgian vic mini in silver as well as a full size silver-gilt Belgian vic with a large rectangular hallmark on the suspension ring. Portugal did indeed use silver hallmarks between 1886-1938 but then again it may just be a flat spot on the suspension ring. Vic mini's are another whole area you can focus on and it certainly rounds out a good vic collection with both single items and small groups still reasonably obtainable. Regards, Rob

JM and others, For a direct comparison here is the corresponding re-issue type 2 with a gold-gilt finish. While the difference may not be readily apparent from the pic, it is definitely noticeable when you have the two pieces side by side. Note the strength of the green colour in the ribbon of the gilt re-issue type 2 compared to the slightly faded colours of the matte finish re-issue counterpart. Regards, Rob

Hello JM, Here is a Czech re-issue type 2's that has a matte brass finish for comparison. It also has the common ribbon seen on czech vics produced after WW2. Regards, Rob

Tim, The only makers mark that I know of that is a diamond shape is one produced by Arthus Bertrand of Paris. This particular mark was used from 1917. I'm not sure if this helps. Regards, Rob

JM, This particular official French vic was also produced by the firm of Janvier Berchot. While the more regularly seen JB mintmark has the strongly incused 'JB' within the triangle in this case the JB letters on the hallmark are less distinct and often result in them being worn or rubbed down. In some other cases it is just the plain triangle. Here is one for comparison. Regards, Rob

Hello JM, The Czech re-issue type 2 was produced by the Prague firm of Karnet & Kysely. They were the leading producers of most Czech awards and decorations. The re-issue type 2 was produced between 1945-1948 and the pale unblended ribbon also dates from that same period. Production of the vic re-issue type 2's and most extant czech awards and decorations ceased in 1948 following the coup d'état of February 1948, when the Communists definitively took power. Regards, Rob

Hello johnnymac, Welcome to the thread! It is good to see that there are a few more vic collectors in this forum. Yes you are indeed correct in identifying the item as a re-issue, type 2. There were two different varieties of the re-issue type 2 having either a gilt finish or a flat brassy finish. Yours could be either a gilt finished one that has had the finish wear off or it might also be a flat brass finish one. The Kremnice mint produced re-issue type 1 has a much more darker brass finish and there are also obverse and reverse differences between it and the K & K produced re-issue type 2. Interestingly there are far fewer re-issue type 1 seen than the more readily obtainable re-issue type 2's in the market. You are also correct in identifying the major differences between the re-issue type 2, re-issue type 1 and the official strike. There are a number of very slight differences on the reverse including a slightly smaller crown on the double-tailed rampant lion of Bohemia compared to the re-issue type 1, with the base of the double-barred cross (as the Cross of Lorraine) of Slovakia, slightly longer on the left as viewed, with vertical lines in the background. In addition the year dates are slightly larger than that found on the official variety and there is a slightly noticeable difference in the weight, angle, and detail of the surrounding linden leaves. The most noticeable difference on the obverse is the thicker trio of leaves with veins apparent at the base of the feet of victory as well as a different single flower on the right as viewed. In addition there is no designers name of 'O. Spaniel' which is the most immediate give-away. The re-issue types were also consistently seen in the paler ribbon variety that you have illustrated. Hope this has helped. Regards, Rob

Hello Mervyn, With my work schedule slowing slightly here are some details. In 1917 the rank of warrant officer class one was established with the Royal Coat of Arms designated as the badge of rank. In the Australian Army the badge for warrant officers class one was replaced by the Australian Coat of Arms in 1976 and has been worn ever since. The position for wearing the badges of rank of warrant officers changed from the lower forearm to the mid-upper arm at the end of 1996. When I have time I will try and locate the current much larger rank patch that replaced the badge shown in post #86. Hope this helps. Regards, Rob

Hello Thomas, The italian vic mini was produced in a variety of size diameters, with both cylinder and staffa suspender. Unsigned and signed varieties also exist. Your mini, with the wire suspender, was produced during the 1950-1960's period and is also becoming scarcer despite being a later striking. Regards, Rob

Australian Army WO1, embroidered, service dress, c1976 - 1990's. This badge was worn until replaced by the much larger version which has a very large backing area, designed to cover the previous rank patch replaced. See the Australian WO2 corresponding entry. Regards, Rob