RobW

To one and all, For those yet to see such an example, here is a pic of the Romanian unofficial type 3a. The reverse details and differences are very noticeable. This should clear up any confusion over the reverse details for those looking for one. This particular example sold online some months ago. They are not seen often. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, A nice unofficial type you have. As you have indicated it is a bit more difficult to obtain these Romanian pieces with correct era or correct to type ribbon. In a lot of cases the French ribbon was used so that would be a suitable substitute. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, I have seen Belgian vics (official ones) that have both smaller and larger balls, balls with larger gaps or spaces for the suspension ring, as well as balls that were misshapen, or slightly flattened. There is such variety that I would suggest it is just an oddly shaped ball suspender that has, perhaps, been knocked or come in contact with something else to give it that slightly flattened appearance. That the medal is suspended by French and not Belgian ribbon is of note as well! Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, The CHATEAU-THIERRY and MEUSE-ARGONNE bars are US made while all the remainder are of French production and origin. You will note that there is also MADE IN FRANCE on the backstop of one of the bars. These bars are all contemporary to the 1930's so it is not altogether untoward to see them. Of note is that the vic is also a 'wire loop' variety. It is certainly not unusual to see where the recipient has added bars that, in their mind, accurately reflect their service. A nice example especially with the corresponding 3rd Division Medal. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, Interesting points you make regarding these Indian vics. I think the condition of the Indian vic is a combination of all the elements that you have mentioned: * possibly worn dies. * medallic composition and reaction to local humid conditions. * a propensity for the wearer to polish the medal. * the vagaries of time and general wear. It does appear that the naming styles seen on Indian vics is consistent. The specific details on this naming style are contained in Howard Williamson's wonderfully illustrated book 'The Great War Medal Collectors Companion', 2011. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, At least in both the title and details of each of these listings, the items are clearly marked as being a die stamped COPY. So these are clearly not being advertised or listed as the genuine item. I would agree that both the colour and finish are easy to spot as not contemporary or original, but in this case there appears no intent to deceive. On the other hand there is another vendor, clearly listed on earlier posts in this topic (with pictures), that lists their items with an ambiguous title and detail. The larger issue here is one of intent to deceive. Good quality die-stamped copies listed as such are one thing. Items listed with the intention to decive the collector into believing they are original is another matter entirely. Where there is sufficient money to be made in selling items of dubious provenance someone will always make such a commercial product. It pays to be wary. Regards, Rob

Hello Jim, You will be waiting a while as my collection, except for the reference books, is in long-term storage. Regards, Rob

Hello Jim, I have a similar example from Lordship with a Navy bar. I don't have my collection with me so I can't recall which one it was but it was a Fullford manufactured one with the thin backstrap. Regards, Rob

Hello Jim, I suppose as long as they have spent the money on the initial outlay of dies etc... they would have to attempt to reoup the money in the end. As you have indicated these medals do indeed keep appearing on the online auction sites. I would also suggest they are probably being sold at the militaria shows in the US as well. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, I have also seen a UK group of four {with a Military Medal} that had a DEFENSIVE SECTOR clasp attached to the vic. I suppose the veterans basically did what they wanted especially if they were no longer in the service. It is this variety which makes collecting vics interesting. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, Did you manage to obtain this example?? Regards, Rob

Hello Pierre-Yves, I have 3 George Studley catalogues (1939, 1943 and 1961) but my collection is in long-term storage so I cannot get access to them. These catalogues are a good source of information on US medals and do indeed show the differences between US produced versions of French medals and the original French manufactured items. I have also seen other US groups that have the French manufactured Verdun and St. Mihiel medals. There is always much variety. Regards, Rob

To all, This forum, again only in the French language has been resurrected as FIM 2. It is located at: http://insignes-medailles.forumpro.fr/ Fellow collectors that can understand french, or can use the google translation tool, would find this a good resource on French medals. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, A nice trio especially with the original less blended ribbon. The un-ribboned Sacchini example, in the original paper package, is a nice example. These are not often seen. Regards, Rob

Hello Sergio, Taking into consideration that there were an estimated 300,000 to 350,000 (Laslo Ed 2, cit) of this model produced, some variation in both the finish and metallic content should be expected. While all the specific Belgian manufacturers of this model have not been identified I have seen models before that have a shallower level of detail as well as more bronze appearance to the ball suspender. Both examples look fine. Regards, Rob

Hello Jim, Probably because not all collectors do due diligence before obtaining an item. This can be due to being new to the collecting area or not necessarily having access to a good source of credible information. Both volumes by the late Mr Laslo are good starting points but not all collectors either have a copy or access to them. A quick search of online resources, of which this forum is but one, would be able to give a prospective purchaser both the information, context, and pictures, to make an informed decision. This doesn't always happen. Unfortunately as long as there is a source of new customers such fakes will always be sold. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, There are examples of the Morlon model that do not have the cornucopia and BR mark on the reverse. They are not found that often. Given that you have provided a very clear close-up of the reverse it does indeed appear that there are no corresponding marks. The roughness of the bottom part of the edge and reverse planchet does look a bit odd but that may be a result of the image and lighting. It should be remembered that the Morlon model was produced in very significant numbers so it is not surprising that there is such a variety of manufacturers. A nice pickup in good condition. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately I can't show the reverse of this group as I sold it last week to make way for another item. Regards, Rob

Hello GM1, You will also note on the first Alexander Leisek model, with the 'LA' mark inside the wreath on the obverse, that there is a faint PAUL DUBIOS stamping at the bottom right of the obverse. This is not present on the Leisek models that only have the 'LA' mark on the reverse. Regards, Rob

To one and all, Here is an italian group with an official type 3 vic (Lorioli-Castelli Milano). Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, To the eye of a rim that does appear to be slightly rounded is a very good indication of a name erased piece. A very close inspection on the sides of the medal planchet would inevitably show where any such erasing has started and stopped. Such a shame when such erasing occurs becaues it removes the opportunity to know the recipient through subsequest research. Noting that the records for this collection indicate the pieces were collected by 1928, combined with the initial establishing decree for the Cuban vic dated in June 1922 (amended in August 1924), it is at least suggestive that the piece was produced during that era and is correct to type. I am sure that others will have differing opinions. Regards, Rob

To one and all, For those vic collectors that have yet to obtain a copy of the Laslo references there are two current ebay auctions open; one for each edition of the books. Auction numbers are: * 151056874567 - Numbered and signed 1986 first edition (752/765). * 151056874741 - 1992 second edition. While both have a modest starting price these volumes are not seen that often. Despite their age they are the only specific reference book available, at this time. Regards, Rob

To all, As Pierre-Yves has mentioned the interesting item in the group is the US produced French War Commemorative medal. While slightly off-topic there are also US manufactured versions of the following French medals: * St. Mihiel Medal * Chateau-Thierry Medal * Verdun Medal These US manufactured versions are surprisingly more difficult to find than their French made counterparts. The FIDAC medals is also a nice specimen. I have seen other French made examples that have a ball suspender and the dates 1918-19 inscribed on the reverse. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, It does seem odd that a person with but 1 piece of feedback has made so many bids; although they could just be starting out in the vic section. Regards, Rob

Hello Claudio, Thanks for posting these pics. These are a nice pair of Italian diploma's. While I am also not an expert on the myriad of French vic diplomas this is a nice example of that issued to a member of the 1st Aeronautic Group. Those certificates awarded to members of the French Air Force, or air groups in general are not often seen. As Jean-Michel illustrated above there are quite a few different designs to the French vic diploma. Regards, Rob