RobW

Hello GM1, You have some very nice Riemer examples. A query on the example with the smallest ball suspender (on the left as viewed as the group). On close inspection it appears that the ball suspender has actually cracked where the solder is on the obverse. Is this the case or is it a trick of the lights? Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, My appearances will be both fleeting and irregular as work intrudes. Regards, Rob

To all, There is a nice Greek miniature vic currently on ebay (auction numbers: 400598211038 and 360782825078). Despite the two listing it is the same item. These miniatures do not appear that often. Regards, Rob

To all, A recent acquisition. It is a 'MADE IN ITALY' reproduction type (as defined by Alex Laslo). It has this mark stamped on the rim at the base. In addition it has a reproduction NAVAL BATTERY bar. The background of the bar has a slightly raised pebbled surface. The italian repro is not often seen and even moreso rarely with a Navy/USMC bar. Regards, Rob

To all, I would agree that upon reviewing there is also the possibility that this example is actually an official strike. It certainly looks a nice strike but again without a look at the rim, we shall never know. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, Given the number of unofficial types and varieties it is not altogether unexpected that there would be a myriad of suspension devices and types. I am sure that there would have been all manner of minor variations in production dependant on the local Romanian manufacturer. I have also seen examples were the barrel suspender looked more like a ring and/or a cylinder. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, Correct on both accounts. The first edition was published in 1986 with a total of 765 numbered copies. The second edition was published in 1992 in an unknown quantity and was un-numbered. One of the major differences between edition one and two was the inclusion of the Battle Clasp matrix on page 94. Notwithstanding that the updated 1992 edition has all the latest information (at the time), including the type classifications. Having the reference (2nd edition) is advantageous especially as there are so many references to it here on this forum. It also allows for collectors to update their copy as newer information comes to hand or emends older information. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, An interesting piece indeed. On close-up it appears to be a cast copy. The 'C Charles' makers mark on the obverse appears clean but with no pictures of the rim, to check for the 'AC' and BRONZE marks, it will be difficult to be definitive either way. Regards, Rob

Hello GM1, It is not unusual to see differences in finish and metal content with these Riemer types. You have three good examples with different ball suspenders. The larger ring-cylinder is seen less often than the usual ball suspender. Regards, Rob

To one and all, Late to the party again... To respond to some of the earlier comments. In 2009 I obtained the cuban group indicated in posts 1 & 2 of this thread. The group that arrived from the vendor was not entirely consistent with what the illustrations showed. I am sure that other collectors have had similar occurrences. This makes my original comments at that time redundant as well. Irrespective I have since obtained the original piece and have re-united it with the group. The gilt example, as per the accompanying picture, is in the same format and design as the bronze example indicated by Lambert in post #71 and seen on the ebay auction. It is from my picture archives as I don't have access to the actual group at the moment. That would suggest that this is a particular design type probably produced by a local cuban manufacturer. It also has a slightly off-centre and squashed ball suspender. Either way this new variety continues to show that there are always more varieties out there just waiting to be identified. Regards, Rob

To all, The vendor indicated that the collection was put together by a US collector in the 1970's. This at least identifies the era of collection and gives us a snapshot as to those varieties available at the time. Regards, Rob

Jim, The following excerpt from Mr Laslo's volume (2nd edition) seems pretty self-explanatory to me. "Type 3a - Reverse has the correct use of the letter 'G' except for Greece which reads 'CRECIA'. Other reverse die variations compared to the Unofficial Type 3." The picture in post #158 meets all those criteria. I have also included a screenshot of the text from page 79 of Mr Laslo's book for others to reference. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, A nice example, in surprisingly good condition, of the unofficial type 1. Have fun trying to obtain a replacement ribbon. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, Yes; that is a nice succinct collection of type examples. A closer inspection of each individual example, in the close-up pics, provides some more clarity to the varieties. Looking at these close-ups I identified the following: * Belgian - Official strike. * Brazil - An official strike. Not being able to see the rim means you can't see if it is a type 1 or a type 2. * Cuba - very difficult to tell due to the darkness of the close-up picture. * Czechoslovak - Reissue type 1. * France - Official type. * Great Britain - Official type 2. * Greece - Unofficial type 2. * Italy - Official type, difficult to tell if type 1, 2, or 3 * Japan - definitely a reproduction type. * Portugal - Reproduction type 2. * Romania - Official type. * Siam - Reproduction type 1. * South Africa - difficult to see at the bottom of the display but certainly looks like an official strike. * United States - Reproduction type. The numbering variety types are taken from Alex Laslo's second edition. All in all a good collection of type examples. What is interesting is the large number of reproduction examples with the Czechoslovak Reissue type 1 being particularly difficult to find. It would be of note to see the background behind this collection. I am sure if there is a very keen buyer, not wanting to sit and wait patiently to accrue such a type collection over time, this would be a very attractive opportunity. Regards, Rob

Hello Jim, The numbering system for my post (# 158) identifying the item as the unofficial type 3a, is based off that in Mr Laslo's second edition book. I am sure that there are other examples and varieties, as shown in your post. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, A very nice piece that you have obtained. The edge markings of Chobillon and BRONZE are very clear. Regards, Rob

To one and all, For those yet to see such an example, here is a pic of the Romanian unofficial type 3a. The reverse details and differences are very noticeable. This should clear up any confusion over the reverse details for those looking for one. This particular example sold online some months ago. They are not seen often. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, A nice unofficial type you have. As you have indicated it is a bit more difficult to obtain these Romanian pieces with correct era or correct to type ribbon. In a lot of cases the French ribbon was used so that would be a suitable substitute. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, I have seen Belgian vics (official ones) that have both smaller and larger balls, balls with larger gaps or spaces for the suspension ring, as well as balls that were misshapen, or slightly flattened. There is such variety that I would suggest it is just an oddly shaped ball suspender that has, perhaps, been knocked or come in contact with something else to give it that slightly flattened appearance. That the medal is suspended by French and not Belgian ribbon is of note as well! Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, The CHATEAU-THIERRY and MEUSE-ARGONNE bars are US made while all the remainder are of French production and origin. You will note that there is also MADE IN FRANCE on the backstop of one of the bars. These bars are all contemporary to the 1930's so it is not altogether untoward to see them. Of note is that the vic is also a 'wire loop' variety. It is certainly not unusual to see where the recipient has added bars that, in their mind, accurately reflect their service. A nice example especially with the corresponding 3rd Division Medal. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, Interesting points you make regarding these Indian vics. I think the condition of the Indian vic is a combination of all the elements that you have mentioned: * possibly worn dies. * medallic composition and reaction to local humid conditions. * a propensity for the wearer to polish the medal. * the vagaries of time and general wear. It does appear that the naming styles seen on Indian vics is consistent. The specific details on this naming style are contained in Howard Williamson's wonderfully illustrated book 'The Great War Medal Collectors Companion', 2011. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, At least in both the title and details of each of these listings, the items are clearly marked as being a die stamped COPY. So these are clearly not being advertised or listed as the genuine item. I would agree that both the colour and finish are easy to spot as not contemporary or original, but in this case there appears no intent to deceive. On the other hand there is another vendor, clearly listed on earlier posts in this topic (with pictures), that lists their items with an ambiguous title and detail. The larger issue here is one of intent to deceive. Good quality die-stamped copies listed as such are one thing. Items listed with the intention to decive the collector into believing they are original is another matter entirely. Where there is sufficient money to be made in selling items of dubious provenance someone will always make such a commercial product. It pays to be wary. Regards, Rob

Hello Jim, You will be waiting a while as my collection, except for the reference books, is in long-term storage. Regards, Rob

Hello Jim, I have a similar example from Lordship with a Navy bar. I don't have my collection with me so I can't recall which one it was but it was a Fullford manufactured one with the thin backstrap. Regards, Rob

Hello Jim, I suppose as long as they have spent the money on the initial outlay of dies etc... they would have to attempt to reoup the money in the end. As you have indicated these medals do indeed keep appearing on the online auction sites. I would also suggest they are probably being sold at the militaria shows in the US as well. Regards, Rob