RobW

Hello all, I agree wholeheartedly that the term 'unofficial' coined by Alex Laslo is most appropriate when it comes to the Romanian locally produced models. There are variations and then there are variations of those variations. I have 4 Romanian groups; 3 with an unofficial Romanian vic and 1 with the official strike. It is this variety that makes collecting these items so interesting. Regards, Rob

Hello Kevin, I'm not saying it is a fake; just that it appears to be a cast copy, or one with moulding flaws on the reverse, based on an unofficial type 3. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, It does appear to be a cast copy of the unofficial type 3. The lack of detail is especially noticeable on the reverse. Regards, Rob

Hello Oliver, If you note post #12 on this thread, by Lambert, it has pics of the obverse and reverse of the Lorioli-Castelli variety. On the reverse there is no mark of 'G.Villa' on the right hand side as viewed. Are you saying that you have seen a Loriloi-Castelli variety that has the marking of 'G.Villa' on the reverse? That would be interesting to see if it is the case. Regards Rob

Hello Oliver, Welcome to the forum and to our small group of vic enthusiasts. I am sure that you will find much assistance and help from like-minded collectors here. Regards, Rob

Jim, These are good points about the differences in the stars, end loops, fonts, and spacers; but we are still no closer to positively identifying the actual manufacturers of these different bar varieties. Given the passage of time I suspect that the relevant information, if still known or even residing in the manufacturing companies archives somewhere, will not come out. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, That is a question that has been posed to our US collector friends some time back. No responses have been forthcoming so the hunt for information continues. Time will tell... Regards, Rob

Hello Herman, I have not seen such an example. Could you post a close-up pic of the obverse for us to compare? Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, Details from the original post on 'usmilitariaforum' indicated the gentleman in question was in the 129th Infantry Regiment of the 33rd Division. The Regiment was entitled to the following battle clasps: * Somme Offensive * Meuse-Argonne * Defensive Sector In addition they served in the following sectors: * Amiens, 27 July - 5 August 1918 * Verdun-Frommereville, 8-25 September 1918 * Troyon, 26 October - 11 November 1918 The division was involved in the last Meuse-Argonne offensive. Following the armistice the division remained in positions near the Meuse river for approximately one month. It was at that time that the Army of Occupation, or 3rd American Army was raised from the following divisions; 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 32nd, 42nd, 89th and 90th. The 33rd division was initially one of those divisions that were tasked to provide support to the Army of Occupation and guard the lines of communication. On 12 December 1918 the 33rd division was allocated to the 7th Corps and subsequently became part of the 3rd Army. It would seem logical that in the interim time between the Army of Occupation establishing itself on the Rhine, and Mozelle valley some form of 'PreOccupation' activities would have occurred, hence the unofficial bar. Interestingly; formal occupation activities occurred in Alsace and Lorraine on 8 December with elements of the 131st Infantry Regiment, of the 33rd Division, in attendance. That may explain the bottom bar. The 33rd division also found itself on occupation duties in the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg. Given all these events I can see why an individual soldier would adorn his vic with these unofficial 'Army of PreOccupation' and 'Alsace-Lorraine' bars. They may not be technically correct but at least it has given the vic some character. Hope this is of use. Regards, Rob Sources: 1. WW1 Campaign and Service Credits, Planchet Press, June 1996. 2. The History of the A.E.F., Shipley Thomas, 1920. 3. The History of the 33rd Division, A.E.F., Frederic Huidekoper, 1921.

To all, Here is an interesting vic from a group to a gentleman of the 33rd Division, recently posted on a us militaria forum. It was part of a larger Purple Heart group that also included a number of French awards. The current owner of the group has agreed to allow me to post this pic. Of note is the ARMY OF PREOCCUPATION, OFFENSIVE SECTOR and ALSACE-LORRAINE bars. These are rarely seen. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, I wasn't bidding on these items and hence didn't win them, as I already have certificates for all three of the Legions. I waited for the auction to finish and just posted them for the information of the group. I would agree, however, that both the medal and the certificate are in good condition. Certificates from any of the legions are not easy to come by, and moreso in good condition. Regards, Rob

Hello Dieter, Thanks for the link. Always nice to have other input especially as it is a related award. Regards, Rob

And just the award certificate. Regards, Rob

And the reverse. Regards, Rob

Close up of the obverse of the medal. The ribbon is in good condition. Regards, Rob

To all, A recent bay auction finished with this nice czechoslovakian victory medal certificate. It was awarded to a Sergeant in the Russian Legion and is dated 20 March 1923. Interestingly it also has the vic as well, with a nice unblended ribbon as well. These award certificates are of such a nice design and are not seen regularly. More pics to follow. Regards, Rob

Hello Mervyn, What a wonderful group with photos ! It is often these smaller groups, that show solid and continuous; though unglamorous work, that prove to be gems. Constant service conducting mine sweeping and mine hunting was required and was dangerous work. A very nice group it is. Thanks for posting. Regards, Rob

Hello Herman, There is such an example located on the following web-site: http://www.medal-medaille.com/product_info.php?cPath=86&products_id=9215&osCsid=e0cf485b060258ebad1818657379c6f4 As has been alluded to the Portugal vic is not an easy item to find in good condition, and even more difficult to locate, with the combatant star. Have fun in your search. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, While the original decree indicated that only 'combatants' could wear the star it does stand to reason that if personnel were taken prisoner, that would generally result from combatant action. This may explain why these personnel would also wear the star. The regulations are a bit vague and allow for some discretion and differences in interpretation. Of course, while regulations state one thing it is not uncommon for soldiers/officers to wear items that do not accord with those same regulations. Regards, Rob

What a lovely group. Thanks for posting this. Regards, Rob

Hello peron, Welcome to the forum and to this area. I am sure that you will find much to read and enjoy about the fascinating area of victory medals. It is good to have another member from Portugal amonst the group. Regards, Rob

Hello JapanX, Thanks for the pics. They are a good reference. Regards, Rob

A nice group. Is it common to have the thread attached to stop the medals from swinging around too much? Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, A nice piece. These examples are becoming harder to find even in Italy. Interesting that it has a unblended ribbon. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, As Lambert has already stated; a nice piece you have there. The striking is nice and crisp and it certainly shows the fineness of the detail on the reverse. Regards, Rob