RobW

Hi Lambert, There are sometimes, but not always, extra markings on the rim in addition to the 'MADE IN FRANCE' mark. If there aren't any extra markings that is okay as well. All in all you have a good specimen. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, You have picked up a nice example with the French ribbon as well. The 'MADE IN FRANCE' mark is also nice and strong. Are there any other markings on the rim? I would be looking for a triangle shaped makers mark as well. Regards, Rob

Hello Jean-François, I would agree with Dave's comments regarding the verdigris and other marks. While there is another example on Barry Turks' emedals site it is much more expensive than the example list on ebay. It all comes down to how much you are willing to pay compared to the condition of the item. With some careful cleaning you could clean the item up and end up with a nice example. As most vic type collectors are aware both the Siam and Brazil vic are the hardest country examples to obtain. Regards, Rob

To all, To put David and Lambert's comments into perspective. The Romanian unofficial type 3a is the rarest of the Romanian unofficial strikes. It is seen very rarely and far less often than the official strikes. Many have proffered opinions on the type 3a but very few have the item in their collection and even less examples appear in the market. This most recent example that was sold for US $ 392 is consistent with others that I have seen in the past. It goes to the adage of what a collector is willing to pay for a specific item. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, There has been one particular article, written quite a few years ago, that had the initial details on the 'discovery' of these Polish victory medals. I do have a copy of the article but I shall need to trawl through some storage boxes to find it. It may take some time as my collection is not located with me. As far as I can recall the article had the background where the purported items were found in some boxes at a militaria show. The details are pure fiction, written I believe, to lend credibility to the items so that they could sell as a commercial and 'scarce' item. Of course, knowledgeable collectors already know that Poland did not issue a victory medal and their first campaign medal, was that awarded for the 1918-1921 wars; which shaped the borders of Poland. Unfortunately these fake Polish items are only good enough to fool the inexperienced or new collector that neither has the Laslo reference work or the acess to such a form as this. Regards, Rob

Hello David, This example has the same die characteristics as the one in post # 127 of this thread. It is a nice example of yet another variety that is similar in appearance to the official type 2. Regards, Rob

Hello David, A nice example in good condition. It is, however, the unofficial type 2 not type 3. It has been previously suggested that this was produced by the French manufacturer M. Delande. Regards, Rob

Hello Bill, I would echo david's thoughts in that the medal itself looks fine although most likely repaired. The ball suspender does appear to be a bit larger than that normally seen and the registration shift in the reverse design is certainly interesting. I have seen other Belgian vics that have off-centre obverse-reverse dies so that can be explained. I have also seen vics either silvered or with a gilt finish so that in itself is not unknown. A nice example nonetheless. Regards, Rob

Hello David, Not all French produced Belgian vics were marked on the rim with either the maker stamp or the word BRONZE. Some have no markings at all and have a thicker planchet with file like striations. A combined pic of the obverse/reverse, showing your thicker planchet example, alongside the thinner example may be of assistance. This way there might be a few more clues, in particular the size of the ball suspender. Regards, Rob

Hello Oliver, There is nothing wrong with the medal in the listing. The ribbon is also correct although very tattered. This happens quite often with a particular type of French produced ribbon. The box is not the correct one. The correct box, from the NOCQ official strikes produced by the French firm of Canale, were plain cardboard with a light green colour. Illustrations of the official NOCQ strike and the boxes are contained at posts # 3,4 and 20 of this thread. I would probably wait until an example came along with a ribbon in better condition. Regards, Rob

Hello Dave, I couldn't agree more, that reproductions should be marked accordingly. I do, however, not hold any hope that this will occur in the marketplace. Vendors will always be looking for an opportunity to make extra money on their wares and if ambiguous titles and listings will lead to increased profits I would expect that the practice will continue. We can all wish that such unscrupulous behaviour does not exist but in this market, where price and profits seem paramount, we are not likely to see a change in vendor practices. Regards, Rob

To one and all, As Lambert indicated, and Jim surmised; the medal did indeed go for a respectable price of € 256 (US $ 350). Quite a tidy sum for a 'reproduction'. This particular reproduction strike is one of the nicer in the market. It has good clean lines and is very representative of an original. In this regard it is a good candidate as a 'place filler' until a collector can organise or afford the original strike. The challenge, of course, remains whether or not these items are listed for sale as 'original' or 'reproductions'. Regards, Rob

Hello Jim, The auction is on ebay france (auction no: 181317282284). Regards, Rob

Hello Sergio, You will notice on the most recent posts of the 6 varieties that there are a number of different shades of the ribbon. This is a good example of the ribbon varieties as well. I hope that this helps you in the identification of not only the medal varieties but also the ribbon varieties as well. Regards, Rob

To all, Here are the reverses. Regards, Rob

To all, Here are the obverses. Regards, Rob

To one and all, There is, at the moment, a small collection of 6 different varieties of the Commemorative Medal on ebay italy. The varieties are listed as: variante : S. Canevari / Mario Nelli variante : S. Canevari / Sacchini Milano variante : S. Canevari / C. M. [Lorioli-Castelli] variante : S. Canevari / S.J. (Johnson) variante : S. Canevari / S.I.M. Roma variante : S. Canevari Noting that the auction is still in progress, and not being too presumptive I will post the pics for general information. Regards, Rob

Hello Sergio, What needs to be taken into account is that Czechoslovak Legion members sewed their medals directly to the tunic, or attached them to boule suspenders, and there are numerous pictures available to show this. No doubt over the passage of time some of these ribbons would have become worn and would have needed to be replaced. There are numerous pics on this thread that showed the thicker weave and unblended type of ribbon common to Czechoslovak vics that was used in the first period (1920-1945). After 1945 and the Karnet & Kysely produced models appeared the newer blend or weave of ribbon is seen on those medals. Following the communist takeover in February 1948 the Karnet & Kysely firm was nationalised, so remaining records from that firm are not available. While you can never be 100% sure I would suggest that if a particular veteran wanted to replace their medal ribbon they would source whatever stocks were available locally, either from manufacturers or tailors. If the Karnet & Kysely produced ribbon was available it would have been an option. Regards, Rob

Hello Lambert, My absences this year will be frequent due to work commitments. I agree that the unofficial type 1 was probably made in France. This particular variety also has a similar high quality which is at least suggestive that it was produced in France. Even compared to the unofficial type 1 there are many similarities between the two; despite some small variations on the reverse. Regards, Rob

Hello Gunner 1, Has this item arrived yet?? Regards, Rob

Hello rocketscientist, There are quite a few different variations of these date bars. Some have been posted on this thread already but other variations continue to appear in the market. Given the large number of manufacturers of the medal it stands to reason that there would be a similar number of bar manufacturers. These bars were also produced, both officially and unofficially, for service in Albania. These are now becoming quite difficult to obtain. Regards, Rob

Hello Oliver, I would agree that this piece is an unofficial strike. It is very close to the design of the official production, with some minor reverse die variations and the lack of the 'Kristesko' mark. Some collectors have suggested that this piece was made in France due to the high level of detail and production values; but this has yet to be conclusively established. Regards, Rob

Hello David, I have seen silvered-bronze examples of the French vic before. As has been suggested elsewhere on this forum whether or not a medal was silvered, or even gilt finished may have defended on the funds of the person wanting to wear the medal. In addition there is also the French reissue type vic which has both a reddish-bronze finish as well as a shiny-gilt finish. Regards, Rob

Hello David, As Dave posted at #39 of this thread this particular strike has been previously identified as a reproduction. While the exact manufacturer has not yet been established there are a number of die differences which should aid the vic collector in not being duped into thinking this is an official strike. Regards, Rob

Hello Sergio, I would clarify the comments from Lambert. The ribbon attached to your Czechoslovak vic is not necessarily a 'modern replacement'. It was produced at the same time as the Reissue type 1 and Reissue type 2 by the firm of Karnet & Kysely. This occurred between 1945-1948 so it is both correct to type and period and it is not uncommon to see the official Czechoslovak vics on this type of ribbon. If you can find it I would attempt to replace any modern era nylon ribbon with correct to era french ribbon as that was also consistently used with vics from a number of countries and would be more correct... Regards, Rob