azyeoman

I've read that the straight arms were minted in Germany and the curved ones in France. Is that correct?

I think the ribbon may be original, but it's hard to say without looking at the inside of the ribbon too.

You mean this one, right? Oh, such a lovely pair and so rich in history... http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/28144-case-with-st-helena-and-bavarian-commerative-cross/

I believe that Charlotte was his wife and Renee was his daughter.

Hello Love4 History, I've come across this and Monsieur J. Pluymackers of Liege and who was an agent in "section 2" is listed as one of the 180 who died 154 of whom where Belgian. London Gazette : Volontaires La London Gazette publie dans 3 suppléments de 1919 (1er Août, 29 Août, 15 Septembre) les noms de 2725 volontaires (essentiellement Belges, Français, parfois avec confusion des nationalités, et quelques Britanniques) attachés à l'Armée Britannique en France, section I, section II et C.O.A. (qui connait la signification de ces catégories ?) avec mention "Died" réservée à ceux qui ont été exécutés. J'ai repris les noms et localités rectifiés des erreurs d'OCR mais sans corriger l'orthographe d'origine. Certains figurent dans la liste des 52 fusillés de Gand de la page Alfred PAGNIEN. On y trouve : 1982 Hommes et 743 Femmes, 2498 Belges, 224 Français et 3 sujets Britanniques, 130 prêtres, religieux et religieuses, 6 Valenciennois ou réputés tels : 180 sont décédés dont 154 de nationalité Belge. civilité Nom Initiales Localité Sect. Monsieur Achtergael A. J. Gand Sect. 1 Madame Andre-Duquesnoy A. Atd COA Monsieur Baeckelmans J. Antwerp Sect. 1 Monsieur Baltdasart C. Vaux-sous- Chevremont Sect. 2 Monsieur Baltdazar F. Hal Sect. 1 Monsieur Bartdélémy F. J. Liége Sect. 1 Monsieur Blanjean A. M. L. Etterbeek COA Monsieur Bodson M. St Josse-ten-Nood Sect. 1 Monsieur Bourseaux J. V. Liége Sect. 1 Monsieur Braeckman G. Tronchiennes Sect. 1 Monsieur Brion L. Wenduyne Sect. 1 Monsieur Bruyninckx A. P. Louvain Sect. 2 Monsieur Byn M. Gand Sect. 1 Monsieur Byn A. Tronchiennes Sect. 1 Monsieur Collard Louis Tintigny COA Monsieur Coigne A. L Courtrai Sect. 1 Monsieur Collard Antdony Tintigny COA Monsieur Cosse A. J. Namur Sect. 2 Monsieur Daubechies J. Jemappes Sect. 1 Monsieur De Bavay H. Herseaux Sect. 1 Monsieur De Belva J. B. Gand Sect. 1 Madame De Herdt-Schultz A. M Antwerp Sect. 2 Monsieur De Loose L. St Nicolas Sect. 1 Madame la Comtesse De Moffart D'Honchenee De Meeus M. Ciney COA Monsieur De Pauw C. Beerlyck Sect. 1 Monsieur De Ridder T. Brussels Sect. 1 Monsieur De Ridder J. B. Brussels Sect. 1 Monsieur De Taye C. Watervliet Sect. 1 Monsieur Debacker A. A. Mouscron Sect. 1 Monsieur Decabooter M. F. J. Courtrai Sect. 1 Monsieur Delaruelle A. Wachtebeke Sect. 1 Monsieur Delfosse F. Louvain Sect. 2 Monsieur Delrés A. Liége Sect. 2 Monsieur Delsaut J. Cuesmes Sect. 1 Monsieur Demuer T. Gand Sect. 1 Monsieur Demunck A. J. J. Angleur Sect. 2 Monsieur Descheutter J. Liers Sect. 1 Monsieur Desmottes L. Liége Sect. 2 Monsieur Dewispelaere P. R. Bruges Sect. 1 Monsieur Dhont A. Gand Sect. 1 Monsieur Dobbelaere J. Bassevelde Sect. 1 Monsieur Duchamps M. J. Liége Sect. 2 Monsieur Duerloo H. Esschen Sect. 2 Monsieur Everaert T. Bouchaute Sect. 1 Monsieur Everaert P. Eecloo Sect. 1 Monsieur Eykholt M. Lommel Sect. 1 Monsieur Franck A. Antwerp Sect. 1 Mademoiselle Francois O. Brussels COA Monsieur Francois L. J. B. Lanaeken Sect. 2 Madame Frenay-Derache L. Liége Sect. 1 Monsieur Ghislain A. Hornu Sect. 1 Monsieur Goedhuys T. Courtrai Sect. 1 Monsieur Grandprez C. Stavelot Sect. 2 Mademoiselle Grandprez E. Stavelot Sect. 2 Monsieur Gregoire A. Stavelot Sect. 2 Monsieur Hanselaer A. Zele Sect. 2 Monsieur Heirman T. St Nicholas-Waes Sect. 2 Monsieur Henrot C. Herstal Sect. 2 Monsieur Heynen N. Wardin COA Monsieur Hofman M. A. Courtrai Sect. 1 Monsieur Hofman A. J. Antwerp Sect. 2 Monsieur Honore E. A. J. Marcinelle Sect. 2 Monsieur Hoste C. Oost-Eecloo Sect. 1 Monsieur Jacqmin J. Hal Sect. 1 Monsieur Jespers J. Antwerp Sect. 2 Madame Julien-Mommens M. Couillet Sect. 2 Monsieur Knapen P. Bruges Sect. 1 Monsieur Kricke P. A. P. Gand Sect. 2 Monsieur Laurent C. Roisin Sect. 1 Monsieur Leemans J. Lierre Sect. 1 Monsieur Lefevre L. A. O. La Louvière Sect. 2 Monsieur Lefèvre M. J. E. Molenbeek St Jean Sect. 2 Monsieur Legay J. Cuesmes Sect. 1 Monsieur Lelarge J. Renory Ougrée Sect. 2 Monsieur Lelarge O. Wanze Sect. 1 Monsieur Lemmens E. Liége Sect. 2 Monsieur Lenders J. Liége Sect. 1 Monsieur Leroy J. J. Antwerp Sect. 2 Monsieur Logiest J. Gentbrugge Sect. 1 Monsieur Loncke J. St Nicolas Sect. 1 Madame Machiels-Van Dyck C. Esschen Sect. 2 Monsieur Maes T. Tamise Sect. 1 Monsieur Massart Jean Floreffe COA Monsieur Massy F. Hasselt Sect. 1 Monsieur Materne E. M. J. Liége Sect. 2 Monsieur Maton A. Boussu Sect. 1 Monsieur Mattdys A. Thielt Sect. 1 Monsieur Meired J. E. Rochefort Sect. 1 Monsieur Merjay Franz Ixelles Sect. 1 Monsieur Mertens D. Héverlé Sect. 1 Monsieur Miguet A. Fexhe-le-Haut Clooher Sect. 2 Monsieur Montfort J. H. C. Liége Sect. 1 Monsieur Moons PAbbé F. H. Winxelle-Delle Sect. 2 Monsieur Muller L. Tournai COA Monsieur Naelaerts A. C. Antwerp Sect. 2 Monsieur l'Abbé Nicks J. E. J. Bastogne COA Monsieur Parente C. G. Cureghem Sect. 2 Monsieur Peiffer P. Liége Sect. 1 Monsieur Peirs C. Gand Sect. 1 Mademoiselle Petit G. Molembeek St Jean Sect. 1 Monsieur Pluymackers J. Liége Sect. 2 Monsieur Pollet A. Manage Sect. 1 Mademoiselle Rameloo L. Bouchaute Sect. 1 Monsieur Richter A. Ougrée Sect. 2 Monsieur Riviere A. Bruges Sect. 1 Monsieur Roels L. Sotteghem Sect. 1 Monsieur Sabbé R. A. Waereghem Sect. 1 Mademoiselle Schatteman E. Heydinghe Sect. 1 Monsieur Segers P. J. Reckheim Sect. 2 Monsieur Servais A. J. Montigny-le-Tilleul Sect. 1 Monsieur Simon C. Namur Sect. 1 Monsieur Simonet C. Mons Sect. 1 Monsieur Siquet H. Verviers Sect. 2 Monsieur Smal E. Dison Verviers Sect. 2 Monsieur Smeesters Augustin Landen Sect. 1 Monsieur Smeesters Augustin (Fils) Landen Sect. 1 Monsieur Smekens A. T. Brussels Sect. 1 Monsieur Spelier G. C. Cappellen Sect. 2 Monsieur Stevigny E. St Trond Sect. 1 Monsieur Tasset J. Neerpelt Sect. 1 Monsieur Trouillet A. Roisin Sect. 1 Monsieur Trulin L. Lille Sect. 1 Monsieur Uytebroeck I. Héverlé Sect. 1 Monsieur Van Bergen H. G. Brussels Sect. 2 Monsieur Van Buynder C. Tamise Sect. 1 Monsieur Van De Velde C. J. Courtrai Sect. 1 Monsieur Van De Velde P. Antwerp Sect. 1 Monsieur Van De Woestyne E. Eecloo Sect. 1 Monsieur Van de Woestyne E. Eecloo Sect. 1 Monsieur Van Der Coilden A. Herseaux Sect. 1 Monsieur Van der Meersch C. J. Gand Sect. 1 Monsieur Van Eecke R. Bruges Sect. 1 Monsieur Van Eecke L. Bruges Sect. 1 Monsieur Van Gaever A. Antwerp Sect. 2 Monsieur Van Hecke A. Antwerp Sect. 2 Monsieur Van Hoffelen L. Liége Sect. 2 Monsieur Van Hove J. F. Brussels Cureghem Sect. 2 Monsieur Van Keirsbilk A. Thielt Sect. 1 Monsieur Van Quikelborne P. F. B. Gentbrugge Sect. 1 Monsieur Van Thielen J. Poppel Sect. 1 Monsieur Van Veirdeghem E. Aeltre Sect. 1 Monsieur Van Vlaenderen I. Meuleken Sect. 1 Monsieur Vercoutere E.. Tournai Sect. 1 Monsieur Vergeylen F. J. Louvain Sect. 2 Monsieur Vermeersch Alphonse Thielt Sect. 1 Monsieur Verschraegen C. Moerbeke-Waes Sect. 2 Monsieur Verschraegen E. Moerbeke-Waes Sect. 2 Monsieur Verschuere A. Deerlyck Sect. 1 Monsieur Verschuere O. A. Waeregem Sect. 1 Monsieur Waegenaer G. Selzaete Sect. 1 Monsieur Wanty J. Turnhout Sect. 1 Monsieur Watdelet H. Nandrin Sect. 2 Monsieur Wattiez A. F. J. Braine-le-Comte Sect. 2 Monsieur Wautdy J. M. Wez Sect. 1

A lovely Austrian Godet & Co.

FR. Sedlatrek KOCHEL-OBB. White thread on black cloth Sewn on four sides.

A solitary Hindenburg Cross with a tailor's label. A. Bux Stuttgart Konigsbau

Here's one with a nice Godet tailor's label.

Every time I see these, I'm struck by the colors and the fantastic workmanship that went into making things back then.

In my humble opinion the medal and particularly the brevets are highly under appreciated. When you consider that Besnier on page six started off as one of the 422,000 men who invaded Russia in 1812 and then was one of the 10,000 who returned and then one of those who lived a further 45 years to receive his St. Helene medal, it's just amazing. Charles Joseph Minard's statistical graph is a landmark in statistical graphics. It will show you the fate of Napoleon's army and how rare the little document to Besnier is. He may have "only" been in the supply train, but he was there and lived to tell the tales.

Hello, Love4history. First thank you for the input; it's good to get as much info as possible. I have seen where he died during the war or shortly after as you've said, but how can I confirm that? : ) Any and all help is greatly apprecaited. Cheers,

Absolutely right; a wonderful exhibit. Thank you very much for posting this; great photos and text.

Thanks. All my ancestors save one fought for the Confederacy; Out of 22 Civil War ancestors, one fought for the Union (he was from Missouri) and the rest were from Arkansas and fought for the South. Two were taken prisoner at Ft. Hudson, LA and one deserted and went west to Arizona. Living in AZ, I'm interested in the Indian Campaigns and wonder how many of the men stationed out here were initially in the CSA?

I wonder how many men on both sides lost their faith during the war(s)? I suspect many then and now did and have. Are there any "skypilots" or padres on the site who can address this???

That's very interesting. Where did you get that fact? I'd like to read up more on that. Thanks in advance! : )

Here's another nice thread on GMIC with some wonderful photos. http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/45237-medaille-de-sainte-helene-second-empire/

Here's a wonderful site with much information and if you're lucky, perhaps you'll find a photo of the Napoleonic veteran whose brevet graces your collection. http://www.stehelene.org/php/accueil.php?page=1&lang=en Here's what you can find on an individual. The example is for No. 10 above http://www.stehelene.org/cgi-bin/lh/stehelene-search.pl

Condor Legion groups are so colorful. The White Military Merit is quite unusual to find mounted on a bar.

Another trio with a tailor's label.

With a nice tailor's label and matching ribbon bar.

Obverse of another with a Romanian medal.

Here you go... ; ) http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/57195-paper-worth-more-than-metal-st-helene-brevets/?p=530538

Another to Pierre Louis Fasil (289,810) of the 36e Ligne. It hailed from Anjou and was started on 1 January 1794. The 36th fought at Jemmapes in 1793, Zurich in 1799, Austerlitz in 1804 and Jena in 1805.

A contemporary etching.