Schießplatzmeister

Hello folks:

The RAO Star w/ oak leaves looks good to me! I don't believe that it is post-1918. In fact it looks like a late 1800's star with gold (not gilt) applied cross arms. The rivets are correct and I don't have a problem with the oak leaf attachment (look at the nut, it looks like period workmanship). The oak leaves also appear to be gold.

My vote is that it is probably good. This seller has sold some great pieces lately, and I think that this is no exception.

Watch the sale price on this one!

I do not believe that the case belongs to the star however.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Stogieman:

Unfortunately, I don't know where the bar is, so I can't contribute in this regard.

The SHRK is made of gold and is an awarded piece of Freedom-War (Napoleonic War) vintage. Very nice and not found on the market too often! I'm still looking for one myself!

I can see why the piece disappeared so fast!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello PaulR:

The bar is full-sized and a very unusual style for a German group (and yes, it is mine). I'm sure that more awards were made later, but I would guess that the non-combatant cross award number never went over 2,000.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Dear PaulR:

I've had a bit of time to look through my research materials and I have found the following information. According to Schneider, as of March 4, 1867, there were 144,000 combatant awards and just 1,200 non-combatant awards! This gives you an idea of the rarity of these pieces.

All of the listings refer to these medals as having been made of "oxidized bronze" and not the "cannon-bronze" of the combatant crosses which were struck from bronze smelted from captured Austrian cannon.

The piece that I have (shown above as part of a group) is struck and it appears to have then been dipped in acid which has given it a bright golden-coloured frosted appearance. It appears to be original (especially appearing in this context). Unfortunately, I have not seen enough of them to be able to make a comparison.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Dear Stogieman:

It seems as thought the forgers are stepping-up their efforts!

While the "right marks" are in the right places, and the eagles look nice, the piece is a modern forgery without a doubt. I'm sure that we will see a lot more of these in the near future!

Best regards,

"SPM"

As we can see, the first EOD team trials didn't go too well. While smoking, the intrepid team members decided to figure out what the funny looking wire "thingy" at the front of the shell did! And BOOM!

I'm sure that they didn't do this a second time and that the other members of the team outside of at least a three (3) meter radius were now much wiser and appreciated the sacrifice made by their friends!

"SPM"

Dear PaulR:

Don't worry, your non-combat group is definately pre-1900 in my opinion. The unofficial 1866 campaign cross coinage is probably worth a bit less than the official version, but IF the 1870 campaign medal is made of silver, then that medal is worth considerably more than the official version. You have a great and scarce grouping!

And yes, the 1866 non-combat cross is a different cross than the other three (3) combat versions. Notice that the inscription is different and that the wreath is of oak-leaves and not laurel-leaves. So, the cross AND the ribbon were different.

Congratulations on obtaining these very nice pieces for your collection.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello all:

A super-nice bar! Motorhead is right, the 1866 campaign cross is not of the issued coinage and it appears as though the 1870 campaign medal is not either. The 1870 campaign medal appears to have a nice patinae, so my guess is that it may be one of the very scarce SILVER private-purchase medals that I have heard of. The 1866 campaign cross also looks like an extremely-well made striking.

So, although not officially awarded pieces a super-nice "deluxe" bar.

Congratulations!

"SPM"

Dear Motorhead:

Good job spotting this fellow under his new disguise! I'm sure that he will be back in the future to sell his garbage under yet another name.

The scary part is that some of the forgeries look to be of somewhat decent quality. The Bavarian MVO pieces look very scary indeed! I would like to see one in person to see how really good they are (without spending any money of course).

I smell cheap highly skilled eastern-European labor here?????

Caveat emptor,

"SPM"

Dear Gents:

Please add me to the list of folks interested in purchases all of these rolls when they go to print.

Thank you for all of your hard work and dedication!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Carol I:

This award is on an interesting improvised single mount (I have not seen another exactly like this before). This is a nice added feature!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Carol I:

This is the correct type of ribbon (black with white stripes) for an award with swords. As this award was only for Military Officers, it was awarded for a variety of reasons, but not usually for a single act of bravery.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello again:

OK, me culpa. It was yellow, so we have a knight I with swords!

I think that $1,000 to $1,200 would not be at all unreasonable for a gold knight I with swords. They are certainly not available often on the market!

Good luck Carol I!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello again:

OK, maybe I am a bit colorblind. For ME, it is a bit difficult to tell based upon the photographs. I am still leaning toward the body of the piece possibly being silver. The lighting here is definately a factor and may add a "yellow" hue to the piece. Some of the photos seem to make the body look gold, and some silver.

Oh well, I have been wrong before (as my wife reminds me often).

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Carol I:

This badge is original and is gold. The center of the piece is of lesser-quality gold or silver-gilt however as it has a slight patinae. Many of these were made this way. The piece is marked with a "W", so it was made by Wagner, Berlin. I have not seen gold badges marked regarding their gold content, however gilded pieces (post~1916) are sometimes marked with the silver content (usually 938). The case is correct as is the ribbon.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Carol I:

This is a Baden Order of the Zahringen Lion, Knight II with swords badge. It is original and probably from the 1914-1918 era. The value of the piece would probably be in the area of US$600 to US$750, but prices seem to be going up faster than I can keep track of them!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Dear Sal:

I am here to warn you of the dangers you face! Stop collecting now while you have a chance or you will turn out like the rest of us! It gets worse and worse.

Soon, you will see your first enamelled Order that you can afford and there will be no turning back!

Heed my warning.

Best regards,

"SPM"

All joking aside, this IS an addictive and rewarding hobby. So, welcome and have fun. I hope that you are back now from the "sandbox". Thanks for your service!

Dear PKeating:

Don't be discouraged! There are a good number of us "sceptics" out there that don't buy all of the hype, because a dealer gives out (sells) certificates of authenticity, or someone declares that they are an expert and writes a book.

Human nature being what it is, there will always be an audience for charlitans. Keep speaking the truth as uncomfortable as the feedback may be!

My personal maxim is that if one has to explain a great deal about why something is genuine, they are probably trying to convince themselves!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Dear Dond:

I saw this on Ebay also. It looks somewhat convincing due to the proper type of suspension lug at the top. However, in my opinion, it is a modern copy/forgery. Don't spend your money on this one!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello kyokashinkai:

Unfortunately, this piece is NOT a genuine piece issued/manufactured from 1813-1840. In my opinion, this is a 1914 2nd class that has been re-worked to produce a forgery. I would return it ASAP!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Kev:

It looks to be a bit of rubbish! The engraving was done in the not too distant past! I feel sorry for the fellow that uses hard-earned money to buy this thing!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Wow! What a super read!

Thanks Chris!

"SPM"

[attachmentid=61907]

Hello everyone:

Here is an item from my collection that I believe supports derGeneral's restoration of the bar (with the RAO). I too do not like the idea of just adding any order or medal to a bar, but this combination of awards was probable for this bar originally, so it is not too much of a stretch.

Sorry about the black and white scan! My scanner is giving me grief these days. By the way, the 1870 medal in the miniature group is the non-combat (steel/silver coloured) version.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Dear derGeneral:

If you have the Crown Order 4th Class w/ Geneva Cross, then you have the toughest piece to find already.

You are right, an Original 1870 EKII with original white ribbon with black stripes would be tough to find.

The RAO 4th Class will not be difficult to find. The question is how much will it cost? These relatively common crosses seem to have been going up in price very fast lately!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello derGeneral:

I think that this combination makes perfect sense. Your friend did a great job with the photoshop image. Good luck finding the orders to complete the job!

Best regards,

"SPM"