Schießplatzmeister

Hello Mike:

Unfortunately, most forgeries are offered as genuine pieces, so to find a set of these offered as a forgery would be rather difficult.

Stogieman mentioned that they look cast (originals were die-struck I believe).

Also, the PLM listed above is a forgery, and the oakleaves are also a forgery. Although they are not identical to yours, it shows that such forgeries exist.

I have seen GOLD RAO oakleaves which I believed were cast (and a forgery).

The workmanship of your piece is consistant with casting (originals should be die-struck in my opinion). The loop also has had the wire ends roughly-cut with snips and unfinished (another sign not consistant with pre-1918 era workmanship, as original loops usually had the wire ends rounded and polished).

Although I can't "prove" that these aren't "real", they are not consistant with known genuine pieces.

Best regards,

"SPM"

I wish that I had better news regarding these.

Hello Miguel:

These oakleaves are totally unlike known genuine Zahringen Lion oakleaves [of which there are two (2) types]. In my opinion, unfortunately, the oakleaves presented at the start of this thread are a modern-made cast copy of PLM or RAO oakleaves.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Rich:

Please post a scan or photo of it and I'm certain that someone here will be able to tell you which unit the vehicle belonged to. If you can see the number on the turret, someone might even know the history of that particular vehicle.

Congratulations regarding acquisition of the photo!

"SPM"

Hello again:

I still have not yet received a response from Ebay, but the group has disappeared from the Ebay listings. Shortly before it was removed, the possible "phishing" sign-in page stopped working.

It seems as though Ebay may have removed the item.

Hopefully, the criminals that are offering these items (which they do not own), are "phishing" for Ebay user account passwords, and are possibly highjacking legitimate Ebay accounts will go away.

Thanks again to jaeger7 for bringing the problem to our attention!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello again:

I just recently checked the domain to which folks are re-directed and it is now possibly: secure161-ebay.com

According to Whois, the information for the domain owner is the same as shown for "secure171-ebay.com" by jaeger7

It really does appear as though someone possibly pirated/highjacked Ebay.de for a phishing scheme. But, I will wait and see what Ebay says.

In the meantime, I would suggest that you do not sign in on any Ebay sign-in prompts while on Ebay.de unless you have gone to their usual sign-in prompt yourself.

An interesting world in which we live!

"SPM"

Hello everyone:

As it turns out, the problem was not with the GMIC website, but may be with Ebay.de itself. If someone looks directly at these items on Ebay.de, the possible phishing sign-in prompt appears.

I have advised Ebay. Lets see what they do.

"SPM"

Thank you jaeger7 for pointing out that someone possibly highjacked the link in a "phishing" scheme. I have removed the link to prevent anyone from signing-on to the possibly FALSE Ebay sign-in prompt.

"SPM"

Hello folks:

Guess what?

The same group is for "sale" again. This time, the individual is a different seller in the UK. They state that they are selling it again due to previous non-payment. They also offer a "lifetime" guarantee.

"SPM"

05/20/08

Hello everyone:

As pointed out by an astute GMIC member, it is possible that someone has pirated/highjacked the Ebay.de link for this item which leads to a false Ebay sign-in page (DO NOT FILL THIS OUT as it is probably a phishing scheme!).

I have removed the link!

"SPM"

Hello again Rick:

Oh yes, I forgot the mention, my vote is for the ribbon on the right as it looks like older silk material. The ribbon on the left looks like 1930's-1940's rayon possibly.

"SPM"

Hello again Rick:

I believe that the Rudolstadt pieces are probably a bit more scarce than the Sondershausen pieces. So, the God of collecting really really likes you!!

The "Official Price Guide" is sometimes lacking in information, so I wouldn't necessarily discount a piece that doesn't conform exactly to what is "supposed" to exist.

I believe that three (3) possibilities COULD exist for genuine badges: gold w/ gold swords (early war), gold w/silver-gilt swords (pre-war badge converted during the war), and silver-gilt w/silver-gilt swords (a post-1916 badge).

Are there any Schwarzburg specialists out there?

"SPM"

Hello Wildcard:

Yes, I have noticed this too!

I have seen Friedrich Order 2nd Class badges with swords removed by someone unscrupulous to make an instant badge without swords.

I was lucky enough to get a genuine 2nd Class w/o swords from Eric Ludvigsen's collection many years ago.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Rick:

This piece is actually a Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt Ehrenkreuz 2. Klasse mit Schwertern as it has the "FG" monogram on the reverse center.

Since it is not what you thought it was Rick, feel free to send it to me!

Congratulations on owning such a scarce and wonderful item!

"SPM"

Hello pinpon590:

The badge that you present for review appears as though it may have been manufactured by a casting method. It also appears to possibly be artificially patinaed. The pin assembly also looks a bit "modern".

I am not an expert regarding these particular badges however, so I will beg your patience as I know that there are other folks on this forum that know these pieces well.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Scott:

The "*" stamping on the ring denotes Austrian manufacture I believe. So, this is technically a "copy" from the issue-period, or immediately thereafter. If you compare this piece to a Prussian-made piece (ie: Wagner, etc...), you will see that the motto rings are a bit different (cruder on this piece). I used to have one like this with swords many years ago, but decided to part with it.

My advice would be to wait to purchase a "textbook" Wagner-made piece. They are rather common and shouldn't cost you a fortune.

Best of luck!

"SPM"

Also:

The seller offers a "lifetime guarantee". If he deals with the wrong folks, and if they are defrauded, they may terminate early his obligation to guarantee an item.

And guess what! Another outstanding item offered by this seller!

Orginal-7er-Ordensspang (see posts below)

This looks sort of like a photo from an auction catalogue?????

Remember, a few months ago when a fellow was selling only the photo of an item (in fine print), but made it appear that he was selling a group, etc. It seems to me that the format and strategy used by this fellow is very similar!

Someone should ask for detailed photos of this group and the reverse too (just for fun).

Does anyone know which auction this photograph was taken from?

This person is starting to annoy me greatly.

Hello everyone:

A Bavarian Military Medical Order 2nd Class was offered recently in the Hermann Historica Auction No. 54 as lot number 5082. The reserve for the piece is ?3.500. The piece did not sell and is still listed as available for purchase.

Amazingly enough, on Ebay.de, there is a seller selling the same item! He has at least stolen the photo anyway as it is the same one!

Look here:

Sanitaets-Tapferkeits-Orden-Bayern (see posts below)

The seller had offered this "item" before, but the highest-bidder did not pay (he must have discovered that Hermann Historica has the item and not just the photos like this fellow).

To have fun, someone should ask the seller for a nice close-up of the edge of the cross (I bet he can't produce it!).

Maybe this fellow owns the piece and consigned it to Hermann Historica, or maybe he is an agent of the auction-house, but I doubt it.

Caveat Emptor!

"SPM"

Good that you like it and its arrived safe and sound!

What about Hindis.... I am pretty new collector and dont know all the details.... bronze one is rarer then anothers or whats the story with that?

Hello Noor:

Most Hindenburg Crosses were struck from steel and were bronzed. There are a few genuine bronze pieces floating around. Someone who produced a price guide (I can't remember who at the moment) decided that these should bring a premium on the market.

I personally think they are less-common than the steel pieces, but I do not think that I would pay a premium price for one as they can't really be a "scarce" item.

Congratulations regarding the acquisition of the very nice mounted medal group A Collector!

"SPM"

Unless the bidder is a buddy of the seller

Kevin in Deva

A good point Kevin!

Maybe there is a bit of "shill" bidding going on here (very common on Ebay). I thought that I paid insane prices for items, but this tops all!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello everyone:

I have been watching the following piece on Ebay for a few days:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A:IT&ih=022

It is amazing to me how high it has gone (and the auction isn't even over yet!). I usually don't post regarding active auctions, but I doubt that this posting will "mess-up" anyone's plans at this point. What a beautiful and perfect Godet piece. Someone wants this VERY VERY badly!

Amazing!

"SPM"

Hello Kay:

You bring up an interesting point. There is no way to tell that what is presently being sold with an Expertise by Herr Niemann is indeed what was shown to Herr Niemann and was photographed by Herr Niemann. Basically, this is why an Expertise is practically worthless in most instances. All that it guarantees, is that you have a photograph of an original item on the Expertise.

Well, this brings up yet another topic. Is the author of a book necessarily an "expert" on the subject matter at hand? Is the person who creates an Expertise necessarily the person with the most knowledge regarding the subject matter at hand? I have nothing negative to say regarding Herr Niemann, but I have seen Expertises from other dealers that state that questionable items are genuine.

I personally believe that if someone is a dealer (buys and sells items), and they accept payment for an Expertise, they are subject to various conflicts of interest which may cloud their judgement at times.

I do not believe that most general militaria dealers are sufficiently qualified to render judgement regarding many items. Who can be an "expert" in everything?

Just "food for thought".

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Dante:

I like it! A nice little group.

The poor fellow, all of this, and no EKII!!!!

Congratulations,

"SPM"

Hello all:

Just another example of why one should "purchase the item" and NOT "the story". Another piece of garbage! It is amazing how many "genuine" PLM's are for sale on Ebay throughout the year.

It will be funny if a genuine piece does actually come up for sale on Ebay someday (unlikely, but possible)!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Is that a Fifty-Year LSC?

Hello Stogieman:

The Bavarian Gendarmerie Long Service Cross on this outstanding mounted group is for 35 years of police service. The Bavarian Luitpold Cross is for 40 years of civil service.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello folks:

An interesting item to be sure!

This item is without a doubt a FORGERY. At no time was this thing AWARDED to anyone. This is one of the more-common copies about. It does appear to be gold interestingly enough. Someone has also "aged" it artificially.

Things that I don't like about it:

1) The eagles are lack significant detail generally and are crude to say the least.

2) The eagles beaks are closed.

3) The eagles feet are not separate from their legs.

4) There are lines at the top and the bottom of the letters "U" and "R" connecting them.

5) The general finish to the enamel and metalwork is not consistant with known originals.

This fellow's story to go with this item is interesting to say the least and makes no sense. This is a known copy of a WWI-type PLM.

I wouldn't want this thing for free if it were given to me!

"SPM"