Schießplatzmeister

Hello Wildcard:

I believe that what Gaffken is alluding to is the fact that there are indeed genuine Bavarian MVO 3rd Class w/swords gilt badges that exist. However, the piece in the photos posted here is a 4th Class w/swords which has been gilded and that this is evident because of the method by which it was manufactured. Genuine gilt MVO 3rd badges were made/constructed differently. This difference is a bit of a "guarded" secret for Bavarian collectors. Perhaps the new book coming out soon from Germany about this Order will reveal all.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Thank you Gerd!

You have saved me a bit of time.

Number 8 however is of course: "Lippe-Detmold, Kriegsverdienstkreuz, am Band f?r K?mpfer".

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello again Eric:

"Steckkreuz" means "cross with a pin" or "pin-backed cross".

I will identify the other items for you in German later today (if someone else doesn't beat me to it).

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Eric:

1) Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 1914 2. Klasse am K?mpferband

2) Anhalt-Gesamtstaat, Friedrich-Kreuz am Band f?r K?mpfer

3) Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Milit?rverdienstkreuz 2. Klasse 1914 am Band f?r K?mpfer

4) L?beck, Hanseatenkreuz, 1915-1918

5) Hamburg, Hanseatenkreuz, 1915-1918

6) Oldenburg, Friedrich August-Kreuz 1. Klasse (Steckkreuz) 1914-1918

I hope that this helps!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Yankee:

This is not a typical WWI piece or maker. With the centers being gold, the piece would most likely be from the 1870-71 or colonial period. It could also be a very early WWI piece. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell for certain, unless someone knows when THIS manufacturer made FO badges, and if there was a finite window in time.

An unusual and very nice piece!

Congratulations,

"SPM"

Hello again:

It may be "worth" more. It is difficult to set values for these items (for me anyway). It is worth at least this much. But, if there is a buyer/collector who really wants it, then it will possibly sell for much more. Prices for such items have been going up and up and up. I am certainly having trouble keeping up with market increases!

The missing ribbon ring and ribbon are easily replaced, therefore they do not decrease the value.

Now, so that we don't offend our Russian/Ex-Soviet friends, perhaps we should say that the piece was "re-appropriated for appreciation in the Motherland"

Best regards,

"SPM"

Good decision Paul!

You will find a genuine piece, but it may take awhile, and you may have to pay a bit.

Be patient.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Cosmic:

This is a knight 1st Class (the loop at the top is the proper configuration for a knight 1st). It was made in my opinion from ~1890-1916 (I don't believe that there is a way to be any more specific). It is in great condition (only missing a ribbon ring and ribbon). I would place a value of EUR600 to EUR 800 on it.

I hope that this is helpful.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Paul:

Unfortunately, Chris is entirely correct.

The piece that you have is a 1914 EKII which has had the details ground off of the obverse (I can see the circular machining marks left where the "1914" date used to be). The core is definately a 1914 EKII core which has been altered. The piece was then re-soldered poorly, hence the open seam. And of course, in my opinion, ANY EKII with a marked ring was made during the First World War or thereafter.

Thus, this is a forgery of relatively modern origin.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Westfale:

Congratulations regarding the acquisition of the field ribbon bar. I saw it for sale on the website just yesterday and thought that it was an interesting piece (I was considering buying it too-but too late!).

The backing is certainly original and period. The ribbons look like they are old silk stock.

The stitching of the ribbons is the only feature which could be an issue for some collectors. Yes, it does appear to be a bit haphazard and loose, but I have seen 100% original pieces that look a lot worse.

With an original backing and original ribbons, I vote that the piece is probably good!

As you know the 1866 campaign crosses are a bit scarce.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Marcin:

A very nice photo indeed! The photo is pre-1902 (based upon the design of one of the streamers which changed to a different design in 1902).

Best regards,

"SPM"

My opinion:

VERY bad (made in the not too distant past).

Value: 0

Sorry to break the bad news to you!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Heed Wildcards warning on this one!

"SPM"

Hello Chris:

Yes, that is a TKM ribbon to be sure! He is also wearing his EK ribbon underneath. If we know the unit and the time that the photo was taken, it may be possible to come up with the name of the recipient.

Do you know which company this is?

Best regards,

"SPM"

Yuk!

OK, here is what we appear to have. Original medals polished to the nth degree. An 1866 campaign cross that looks RECENTLY painted. Ribbons that look awfully clean. A more-modern mounting style with a non-period pin. Awards that do NOT follow the proper precident!

Run away! Run away!

I wouldn't want this monstrosity if it were given to me!

A bad day in the "lets make a mounted group because it will look cool" lab.

Oh no! I may have just ticked off a bunch of folks that "re-create" medal bars. No hard feelings, to each their own. I don't think that we need to start bringing up THAT topic again!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Thanks Gerd!

I would have eventually found it I guess, but you saved me a lot of time!

Nice work Rick!

Thanks,

"SPM"

Hello All:

Pardon my ignorance, but where is this article published?

Thanks,

"SPM"

Hello Dante:

This particular piece is a modern forgery in my opinion. Do not purchase it!

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Robert:

Yes, that is definately the Kronprinz Wilhelm! I would surmise that the photograph is pre-1914 because there is no EKII ribbon. This is his stripped-down uniform for the field (inspections, maneuvers, etc.). As you can see, he only has his medal bar and his Prussian Order of the Black Eagle star. Look at all of the loops for the other Order stars! He is also not wearing his collar of the Prussian Hohenzollern House Order.

A very nice card!

Congratulations on obtaining it!

"SPM"

Well......

First, I would like to say that I have found Herr Weitze to be an honest and reliable dealer and my experiences with him have always been pleasant. Also, I find that he has some wonderful and rare items on a regular basis and nothing that I can instantly dismiss as a forgery (like some other dealers!).

The Lancelle items must be looked at separately before they are looked at as a group.

The EKI is in poor condition. The pin is not standard on known Wagner pieces (but perhaps it was replaced at some point). But,... if the pin was not replaced, then the piece may be a forgery. Only by picking it up and looking at it would one be able to tell. Then again, it could be a worn and battered original with a replaced pin.

The mounted group looks fantastic! The only problem that I have with it is that it appears as though the Crown Order's lower right sword hilt has been replaced. Since this is the key piece, it is somewhat of a detractor (but try to find another one that is perfect!). The backing is gone if there ever was one and the pin may have been replaced (but these are not big problems). The combination with the lifesaving medal makes it really nice. The ribbons are old and look like they have not been fooled with.

I love the group, but would pass on the EKI if I were to spend my own money on it!

Oh well, everyone has an opinion (but it doesn't necessarily make us experts!).

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello Kevin:

Not a stupid question at all. Although I have not researched the statutes regarding this, recipients of the Prussian Hohenzollern House Order with swords always wore a small device with crown and swords on the ribbon to distinguish it from the EKII.

Isn't it odd how the EKII which became such a VERY COMMON award relatively early in the war outranked the HHO in importance!. Of course this precedence was based upon tradition and the statutes regarding this which were instituted when the EK really did mean something more. Of course too, early on, the EK was actually considered an Order (although no nobility, titles, etc. followed).

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello again Hardy:

Thank you for your patience and the excellent information! Now I see the Griffen of Baden on the helmet. Excellent information regarding the shoulder boards, and a superb link for information regarding the 110th!

I have learned a lot from the analysis of these photos.

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello again:

I think that this is what we are looking at?

"SPM"

Hello Hardy:

I claim ignorance (my default setting) regarding being able to tell what color the Kokades are. I frankly can't see the Griffen of Baden on any of the helmets.

I do also see however PRUSSIAN eagles on the bugles too. Did the Music Korps troops of Baden not have their own types of bugles and drum hangers?

Best regards,

"SPM"

Hello folks:

Tom is correct in his translation. However, I believe to be more specific, in reality, these awards went to field nurses (on bow ribbons) and were also awarded to doctors and other medical personel. I further believe that awards were made for activities well beyond the 1870/71 conflict (but it seems that awards had practically ceased by the start of WWI).

Best regards,

"SPM"