M Hunter

Does this one qualify?

My best

Matt

Statement - to my understanding, the Second Class of the Lippe Honor Cross is a very high award to a Captain - the rank held by Lammers at retirement I believe.

Can one infer that this was a Post War/Abdication bestowal by the House of Lippe? (May be a dumb question as a widely know fact - just not known to me)

Can one further infer that the senior member of the house was an ardent NAZI much as was the Duke of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha? (Equally dumb question perhaps)

This had also crossed my mind...it did happen as you say with the Duke of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha.

Matt

:love: the mounting style on this bar...great piece!

Kind regards

Matt

Looks like the Lippe Detmold House Order (LH) or Schaumburg-Lippe House Order (SLH) w/o Swords. (Maybe swords on the suspension ring?!?, denoting an earlier wartime awarding of a lower class)

Hard to tell from the fuzzy focus, but I think it looks more like the LH. (A beautiful award if I may add a gratuitous comment.)

I would almost say i can see swords...

Matt

Heiko,

An extremely nice ribbon bar.

Kind regards

Matt

.../...

What is this neck order?

Matt

Going by the ribbon AND medal bar pictures my guess is No.7 is a Red Cross Order ribbon.

Regards

Matt

Thanks for those examples Rick, very nice to see! I don't think my bar has been tampered with, no scratch marks near the tabs...so can't explain the gold wreath. Perhaps the out-fitter did not have the correct green wreath.

The owner must have seen some sort of combat in order to get the EK2....maybe an act of bravery at a field hospital?

Best regards

Matt

Seeing as Saxon ribbon bars are pretty prominant today i would like to post my latest addition, arrived today. Not a Saxon bar but features some Saxon!

The first 3 ribbons i can identify as the Iron Cross, Prussian Red Cross medal, and Saxon Nursing Cross. I used my copy of D.G. Neville's "Medal Ribbons & Orders of Imperial Germany & Austria" to identify the ribbons, but the last one is not in the book. I beleive it to be some sort of Austrian Red Cross Award with War Decoration. Seems to be a running theme with this bar! Can someone please identify it for me?

The reverse is marked DRP and unfortunately the original pin seems to have been broken of a long time ago, and then replaced with this pin...which unfortunately has been broken also...

My other query regarding this bar is: was the Saxon Nursing Cross or "Cross for Volunteer Nurses, 1870-71" as my book states, awarded to both males and females? Maybe it is just sexist old me ( ), but when i hear "Nursing Cross" i think of a lady! Would like to learn more about how this cross was awarded.

My thanks

Matt

2 lovely bars Rick! And a good insight into your hard work and dedication. Just goes to show even the most simple ribbon bars can be tracked down to their owners.

Well done!

Matt

Hi everybody,

here is another new Saxon ribbon bar for NCO. The fact that there are two long service ribbon is interresting but between those ribbons, we find ribbon for Albert medal 4th class without X. This is not so common at all

Christophe

Hi Chris,

It may have been awarded as a non-cambatant award?

Or maybe he didn't bother putting the swords device on?

Perhaps one of the long service ribbons is representing the Saxe-Altenburg Medal for Bravery 1915?

Kind regards

Matt

Brand new bigger scans. Looks like identical Spangen and all.

The two eagles on yours have scanned notably different colors. Try looking at the edges of the 2nd eagle where they touch the ribbon-- less air and wear and should see more true metal color, but looks like a 12 and 4 same as mine.

So close, in fact, I'd date these bars both circa end of 1941. It wasn't allowed to wear a 1939 KVK2X with a 2nd Class 1939 EK2 (including Spange) until October 1941. I'd say mine was made really close to that BEFORE the permission was allowed and yours came soon thereafter with the 2-years-on-the-desk-job KVK2X, for the same wearer from the same shop. The matching "toast" shade of the Westwall medal ribbon is another reason I think so, since those varied from a golden-tawny color almost light enough to be a Lifesaving medal to quite a dull brown.

If we had the Hamburg Hanseatic roll transcribed, eventually a process of elimination WOULD turn this guy up. Probably Oberleutnant/char. Hauptmann aD 1920, back as a Hauptmann (E) and ended the war as a senior Oberstleutnant (S) or lucky Oberst (S) though with the Spange he could have been promoted within the frontline (T) officers and then certainly would have made Oberst.

Looking through the Border Fortress Zone sorts of officers in the January 1939 Rank List, I don't see many (E) officers there except on Fortress Pioneer Staffs. The infantry, artillery, and signals units posted along the border seem to have been staffed by younger regulars.

Unlike the "day tripper" Flowers Campaign Medals of 1938-39, the Westwall Medal had to have been earned by REAL service in the border fortifications, seeming to rule out stray "visitors" for most mere mortals.

Rick,

Yes these bars are definately closely matched, no denying it. The devices (with the exception of the eagels) are very similar as well as the colour of the ribbons...(West Wall as you say, as well as the Hamburg Cross IMO) Not to mention the placement of the eagle device, one slightly higher than the other. So very pobbible made by the same out-fitter.

I had a look at my eagles as you instructed above....no trace of silver anywhere on the right-hand one, not even between the eagle's head and wings...but we have both agreed there is a distinct colour difference.

Really hope this chap turns up. Let me know what i can do to help.

My best

Matt

Twins!

This is a very old scan, hence small-- but pretty good chance you've got another one to "my" guy. Have had this for decades.

I have never totally abandoned hope for identifying my/your... OUR guy. HOH3X, Hamburg, Wehrmacht (E) officer with 12 and 4, Westwall...

Your KVK2X added (in correct place) increases my gut feeling that this was a Pioneers officer rather than one of the other fortification zone units. That should further narrow down suspects (maybe).

Will make new scans. Aside from the fat versus thin eagles, looks like both bars came from the same outfitter, too.

Commence singification of the "It's A Small, Small World" song....

WOW Rick!! This is amazing!

Though i must say i thought my ribbon bar had 2 gold eagles rather than one in gold, other in silver. Now the eagle on the left is a lot more "golden"...so maybe the silver finish wore off the eagle on the right, leaving this dull gold/brass coloured base metal?

If so there was me thinking i had snagged another General's bar! As you can now see from my Avatar i have put my Gen.Lt. Dittmar bar as the image.....wouldn't have this to say if it were not for Rick gents!! The chap's a real wizard!

Many thanks

Matt

And back to Hamburg again!

Matt

Close-up 2

Close-up 1

Reverse of bar

Gentlemen,

My latest Hansa related aquisition. Before i purchased i had a brief discussion with a fellow forum member about this bar (thanks again Timo ) so my mind was put to rest that the bar was most likely authentic. Once i had it here i used my new black-light device and it passes the test, it also looks and smells old (read about doing that here on the forum...very good advice).

My question is why does the Hohenzollern Order come before the KVKX2? Should they not be the other way around? Maybe a period mistake?

Looking forward to your opinions chaps!

As always my thanks

Matt

A simplistic but wonderful medal bar! Congrats!

Matt

Looks ok but maybe better pictures would help. These are a little blurred with the camera flash, especially the first shot, cannot make out the detail on the eagle or plinth.

Matt

Yes, this is the ribbon bar of an Austrian veteran. The last four are commemorative awards from Austrian veteran organisations, but not sure which ones.

And all these organisations had the same ribbon representing them?

Thanks

Matt

Wonders may still Happen !

Now The certificate for Arnolds Hamburg Cross has turned up on Ebay , and his vet medal/cert (ehrenlegion)

and the medalbar with EK, Hamburg, HEK Hungary !!!!!

The only thing is that seller only sells to Germany ? I maild him/her and asked if I could bid so i hope hi will sell to Sweden .......

Would be great to get some more docs together to this group

Christer

Christer,

An amazing group! I really hope you can complete it!

I think i know the medal bar you are referring to on ebay.de.....but would Arnold's medal bar not have the Bulgarian Bravery Decoration awarded in 1919(?) on it before the Hungarian Commemorative medal awarded to him in 1934? It is this way on the ribbon bar.

Kind regards

Matt

Looks like a nice piece. It was once on on a medal bar!

Matt

I do not think there would ever have been more than one KVK2 on a medal bar regardless with or without swords. Looks like a made-up bar in my opinion.

Matt

Lovely Godet bar!

Are the Godet ribbon bars the ones that are straight and not curved?

My thanks

Matt