Herman

and this is the one given when you succeed in 25 times passing the Two Days Military Endurance trials. Red enamelled arms of the cross.

Only 7 are given sofar. The last one in 2003.

Herman

The cross also exists in silver with blue enamelled arms. This means 10 times passing the tests of the two days endurance trial.

Around 100 have been issued. The first was issued in 1963. The last one was given this year in May.

Herman

Edmund,

at the marktplaats site just type in 'nassau' and all will show up. At the moment there is 1 knight with swords for sale but the vendor asks a berserk price (eur 390,-). Don't buy that one. This guy always asks the jackpot. He has some really nice stuff though ....... but it is really too much.

New ribbon can be bought at the dutch firm 'van wielik'. Their site is (www.vanwielik.com). They also sell the original decorations, ...... maybe as a foreigner and asking nicely........ one never knows....

One thing with the latest sold ribbon of the Oranje Nassau by this firm. The orange center of the ribbon is really orange and not orangeyellow as the old ones issued in the 40s till 70s of the last century. Sadly i don't have any spare ribbon left for you.

And yes, your Dutch typing of the name of this order is perfect.

regards and good luck.

Herman

Hello Edmund,

Unfortunately there is no company officially reproducing the Orange Nassau medals. The Order of Orange Nassau, as well as other Dutch official orders, are invested by the crown and upon death of the recipient must be returned to the Chancellery of Dutch orders. If desired the family of the deceased can buy the medal. This is not cheap. The higher the grade, the higher the price.

About 60 to 70 % of the medals are returned. The remaining percentage is bought by the family, forgotten to be returned or simply went with the deceased in his coffin as his or her wishes were. A certain percentage of these medals reach the open market. What is also sold here are the extra medals bought by the recipients. They bought them in a few shops allowed by the government to sell them. One can only buy such a medal upon showing your official medal certificate. Even if you want to buy a spare campaign medal you must show your award certificate.

Fortunately there is ebay and the Dutch marketsite Marktplaats (www.marktplaats.nl). At marktplaats in the directory 'militaria' everyday a few Dutch orders are for sale. They don't come cheap, especially the scarce ones, but in the end you have an original medal.

In your case a Knight in the Order of Orange Nassau with the swords comes around EUR 200,-. The swords make it more expensive as this represents the military division of the order. Without the swords (the civil division) is more common.

Hope my answer has some value.

regards

Herman

Thought I gave this one another push.

So, who has seen one or own one.

Please post the picture.

best regards

Herman

An EK 1 1914 with this marking at the six o'clock position.

True or repro/fake?

Comments please

regards in advance.

Herman

Or does anybody has nice pictures of this cross and wants to share them in this topic.

Anyone ??

regards

Herman

Hi, I am enclosing a picture of the Dutch TMPT cross.

It is an official Dutch medal since 1952. TMPT means: Two days Military Physical Endurance Trials (in Dutch: Tweedaagse Militaire Prestatie Tocht). When you pass the trials at the end of day 2 you are awarded this cross. The organiser of the trials and the issuer of this cross is the Dutch Reserve Officers Association (KVNRO).

I am looking for fellow collectors with this cross in their collection. If you do, please post a nice detailed picture of it of the front and back.

At the moment i am studying this cross, the variations, the different makers and its history.

FYI. The first crossed were issued in the Netherlands in 1936 till 1939. In 1940 and 1941 a Netherlands East Indies version of te trials were held. After WW2 in 1955 the trials were restarted till now. Once a year the trials are held.

The picture i enclose is a 1937 version from my own collection.

Thanks in advance.

Herman

I don't know if this is allowed, but this one is for sale on the Dutch internetsite www.marktplaats.nl.

Type in the word medaille and it will show in the list.

I thought it is an awesome collection on the ribbon.

BTW: I am not the seller.

Obverse an reverse of the ek1914.

The top arm of the cross is a bit off angle. The magnetic core is loose in the silver rim.

The white of the ribbon does not glow in UV. (neither the 1939 and 1957).

regards

Herman

obverse and reverse ek2 1957

The cross is not magnetic and the core is painted which shows on the rim.

And right again Danny,

My EK2 shows the die flaw at the 4 o'clock position very clearly on both sides of the cross.

Also the teeth-like marks for retooling the dies appear at the left arm of the cross (9 o'clock position) on both sides of the cross.

I bought this cross some 4 years ago together with a paper envelope, which is presumably fake aswell.

In the same purchase there were also a 1914 ek2 and a 1957 ek2. The 1914 and the 1957 have no marking on the ring.

I paid EUR 125,- and was assured that all ek's were genuine. As German medals are not my speciality i took the vendors word for granted.

I shall post some pictures of these items.

Question for Danny: How do you know all these details? Are you collecting iron crosses for years and years and build a comprehensive knowledge of the crosses?

Whoa, you guys are good..... and quick.

After checking the marking on the ring it is indeed reading 333.

The second 1 in 1813 is indeed missing a chunk in the right top. The beading edge flaw i do not find.

As a novice to these items i have a question for Danny70. Is the 333 fake a restrike or just a fake to fool the collectors?

Thanks again for the quick help. You guys really have an eye for the details.

Herman

Perhaps a bit better ?!?

Hi experts,

I hope the photo's are sufficient enough to give an opinion if it is fake or real.

And perhaps a maker??

Thanks in advance.

regards

Herman

Hi Makedon,

The red and black badge is of the US 7th Infantry Division 'Sight-Seeing'. The patch represents two crossed number 7's, one inverted.

In WW2 they fought at Attu, Kwajalein, Leyte and Okinawa.

So in the picture there are 2 separate US Infantry Division badges; the 3rd and the 7th. The correct appearance of the badge of the 3rd is starting with the color blue in the upper left corner of the badge. Both divisions saw extensive combat in Korea.

It is very interesting to see the first type of the Korean War Medal. I didn't even know that it existed..... A nice detailed photo of it, obverse and reverse, would be nice.

I just checked "The forgotten war"written by Clay Blair on the Greeks. It says that in december 1950 a Greek bataillon of approx. 1000 men was added to the 7th US Cavalry Regiment of the 1st US Cavalry Division. Their Batcdr was Dionyssios G. Arbouzis. In 1974 he was a Greek 4 star general commanding the Greek Army.

Thx and regards

Herman

The crossed swords is the military division of this order. They do around double or triple the amount than a civilian version.

The medals (the 2 versions on the right of my picture) are still quite cheap in the military swords division.

A Grand cross and breast star with the swords can go for around eur 2000,- A Commanders cross will do around 600 euro. It depend on what the market will give for it. They are scarce.

By the way, a fresh rosette can be obtained for your cross with the Dutch firm van Wielik in the Hague. Just type in www.vanwielik.com and you found them. Please be aware that the orange in the current version is a bit more orange than yelloworange. Please see the difference in my picture of the female officers cross compared with the others.

Good luck

Herman

Hello Ramon,

If you see the marking of a circular attachment on the ribbon and the cross and crown have a golden residue, than you have a Officer instead of a Knight in this order. The size of the cross is the same for both (around 44 mm). All higher awards of this Order (Commander, Grand Officer and Grand Cross) have a bigger cross (over 62 mm).

I attach a picture of my small collection. At the left their is a female officer with indeed a rosette on the ribbon.

regards

Herman

in detail.

The best quality i can do with a mx of 70 kb.

And my final question: Whats the value of this group??

Good luck,

Herman

the backside

Hello experts,

Can you please supply me with your opinions?

The medals are:

1. Eisernes Kreuz 1914, 2e klasse

2. Roter Adler-Orden, 4. Modell (mit ziegelrotem Adler – 1854-1918), Kreuz 4. Klasse, auf dem Rand des unteren Kreuzarms Ritzmarke “N”;

3 Koniglicher Kronen- Orden

4 1914-1918 fur Frontkampfer auf der Ruckseite Herstellerbezeichnung “F en Co.”

5 Offiziers-Dienstauszeichnung fur 25 Dienstjahre, Aus fuhrung mit gekornten Armen

6. Centenarmedaille 1897.

Thanks in advance

Best regards

Herman

Hi OvBacon,

the cross is pre seventies because on the backside the text is written as: 'God ZY met ons' instead off 'God ZIJ met ons' . (God be with us).

Till about 1972 the ZY version was issued. The Oranje Nassau order itself was instituted in 1892.

For the moment thats the best i can do for you.

Herman

Thanks Erik,

didn't know that.

There are some Dutch soldiers who claim they got a CIB in Iraq, but that is questionable. See the Dutch onderscheidingenforum for that.

regards

Herman

Thanks Brett,

Here is another picture. This is a group of a Dutch NCO, Opperwachtmeester KMAR (sergeant-major of the military police) G.H. Delahye who got a Korean medal, the Wharang for his service in Korea from jan 1953 to jan 1954.

His group is in the collection of the Marechaussee museum at Buren, the Netherlands.

His medals are: Dutch mobilisation cross for WW2, Dutch Korea medal (no bar), Long service medal for 12 years, UN Korea medal, Korean Wharang and Korean War Service medal.

greetings

Herman

and a more modern one !