johnnymac

Hi Kevin, you have many, many good points. However I am with Rob on this one. So what is the proper word or classification for this medal, reproduction, copy, unofficial,or fake? I think each of these words could be applied, but I think an unknown sand casting might be a better choice. Now with that said, if you were to ask me on personnel level, I would say it was a very poorly made fake sand casting of a Romanian Victory Medal. IMO Nice posting Bill Regards to all, Jim

I would agree that this medal is a re-issue. I also have one. Nice buy. Jim

Thanks for the Link

Robw, The manufacturers of three clasps in the middle of the group of five that I posted are still a puzzle. Yet, the three clasp themselves do give us clues: 1) The U.S. would have been these clasps biggest market. 2) There is no import stamp, so most likely they are U.S. made. 3) The time frame when they would have been most popular I believe was 1920 - 1940, as WWII might have slowed it all down. Have ever build a puzzle? Some times you need to let go and come back finish it on another day. And at other times someone else who is just passing by, see's your puzzle and slip the right piece in to make sense of it all. The beauty of a puzzle is it can be build over and over by many people and each time it can be just as much fun for them as it was for the very first person.

Dear Bill, I would not have any trouble with either of these clasps. Look for major and total changes not slight ones. I am glad you went with your gut feeling because it is a good'n. I am sorry if I come off to you as though there is a monster under every rock. I believe that collecting should be about fun and sharing. Jim

I know you can answer that question, without my help. Font, stars, moons and spacers

Bilco, on 11August 2012 - 09:29, Said, To what extent can the size and orientation of the stars be used to identify the manufacturer? To all The easiest way to remember is by remembering Elvis Presley "There is only one King, the others are all impersonators". Look at these stars. If I asked you in five minutes to list them with the first clasp being the original clasp and the others being impersonators, could you not do that? If you said no! Then I would ask you did you not also look at the shape of each half moons or the lack of a half moon on each end of the clasp. Look at the spacer bars or lack of spacer bars and also look at the fonts along with looking at the "stars". The first clasp is the authorized issue clasp made by the only one die maker the U.S. Mint. The others are impersonators. . The BNP I understand is selling a poor copy of a reproduction of the Victoria Cross medal selling for 12 pounds as it is posted on the internet, is this reported fact true I do not know. But I have to wonder if any of you would defend that repro medal if it was posted here on our blogging site, or would you expose it for what it is as a impersonator.

Bill, The main course for collecting U.S. Vic is: There was only one type clasp made for the Army. The three manufactures of the original Army style Victory medals got their third thousand + dies set from one place, which was the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, If you talk Navy that is different story. So, if you purchase any U.S. Victory medals and it does not have the original clasp, no matter how hard someone tries to make a medal a real military issue, it is not. It remain a bogus military medal. Some call unofficial looking clasp a "Reproduction". I do not for the simple reason that a reproduction should be a reproduction and not just something that looks close to the original. I personally collect all reproductions and fakes and bogus and unofficial clasp and medals. Why? Because they are interesting and some have more value than the original. BUT I will not pass or try to pass a fake off as an official just because I paid more money then I should have. To many macho men cannot say that they made a mistake and will go blue in the face to prove to you, you are wrong. Yet, they will never on the other hand give any credit for you being right. I am out for the day at a pig roast, cheers

Hello Bill, Here is a page from a catalog from just one of the hundreds of dealers who sold to anyone and everyone at the collectors show. And I'll add that it did not matter that you were in the Army or not. This medal in question is a medal which found its way into a collection by unintended means or by design or from a "want-to-be". Want-to-be's are people who wear and collect military items, yet who did not serve in the military for a full host of things, some with good reasons like lack minimun schooling or medical. Let's look at this medal. There is not one official clasp on it. The first question one has to ask himself is: if a veteran enhanced his medal then why did he not at least use the three official clasps that would have came with his medal? I will also note the Somme Offensive, Meuse- Argonne and Defensive Sector clasp are all missing. Each clasp even the St Mihiel and the Champagne-Marne are after-market made. As just pointed out by Rob in his remarks about where the 33rd Division served, this person's unit was not even at St Mihiel or Champagne-Marne. The standard answer for this discrepancy is that the soldier was assigned at that time to a different unit. To me that would be believable if his medal was an official issue, but this medal is not. I can't see a shred of truth to this medal ever belonging to a veteran. This dealer who sold this mess not for historical reason but for money obviously did not even have a ribbon long enough, so he crammed as many clasps onto a reproduction ribbon as he could. To me the only thing missing on this medal is the bogus Serbia clasp which is also listed in this catalog of the biggest show dealers. Also note there is no "Army of Preoccupation" clasp in his catalog. These are the awards of the 33rd Division Campaign Streams: Somme Offensive, Meuse-Argonne, Picardy and Lorraine. U.S. Victory Medals clasps: Somme Offensive, Meuse-Argonne and Defensive Sector

Speaking of that "Large Fleet" clasp someone purchased this medal shown in my posting for the tidy sum of $303 + S&H on ebay last week. It came with photo of a WWI sailor and two cards, one with the name James on it. But what is more interesting is you checking the two tiny stars out that look just like the ones on the clasps which some believe are BB&B. It is French made clasp as stated on the back bar.

Hi Rob I was going to the use that clasp "Army of Preoccupation" in my book. I even tried to purchase it from the owner months ago, "Oh well'. As for the clasp it is from the same maker of the next clasp down. For me, and with that said, it closes the book on this type of clasp being made by BB&B. They could not have made that big of a mistake on the front of a clasps. Hi Bill, Preoccupation would have been the German Army and we all know that the US Government was not making clasps for the German Army. The aftermarket "Army of Occupation" clasps were being sold by BB&B, Studley and Davison and many many more and mostly to veterans and military collectors. I think that maybe some of these "Preoccupation" clasps got out before the maker realized what had happen. Note the stars, color and lettering, the top 2 clasps were made "for" and "by" the same person. Just like I stated earlier in this blog where the French word "Grand" was misunderstood and the the clasp "Large" Fleet came onto the market. Later it was corrected to the "Grand" Fleet as it was originally to intended. Regards

Thanks for your help. Jim

here is a fuller photo

here is a fuller photo

Some believe my medal it is a reproduction because they think the buckle is to tight, but then I noticed yours is just as tight? Jim

Peron, Is there anything you could tell me about this medal. Some think it is a reproduction but i do not, Thanks Jim

Hello Peron, I have several questions to ask you. Why is there a buckle on the service ribbon as well as one on the full medal. I ask because there are many who believe that the buckle is there to just hold the ribbon ends together. I feel the buckle has its own meaning of important, do you know it propose ? Also I see two different size stars on your service ribbon just above the full size medals? Is it correct to say that both sizes correct? Last I, myself, have a medal which has two (2) brass stars on it, what is the a meaning for two stars? Or is a single silver star the only worn on this medal. To help I am trying a translator program below. Olá Peron, tenho várias perguntas a perguntar-lhe. Por que há uma fivela na faixa de serviço, bem como uma medalha no total. Eu pergunto porque há muitos que acreditam que a fivela está lá apenas para segurar a fita termina juntos. Eu sinto a fivela tem seu próprio significado de importante, você sabe que propõem? Também vejo duas estrelas de diferentes tamanhos em sua fita serviço um pouco acima do tamanho total de medalhas? É correto dizer que ambos os tamanhos corretos? Durar Eu, eu mesmo, tem uma medalha que tem duas estrelas (2) de latão sobre ela, qual é o significado de uma para duas estrelas? Ou é uma estrela de prata único o único usado em esta medalha. Thanks Jim M.

Does anyone have a Italian Victory Medal that is dated 1915 - 1918. If you do please post a photograph of it. Thank you Quelqu'un at-il une médaille de Victoire italienne qui est daté de 1915 à 1918. Si vous ne vous plaît envoyer une photographie de celui-ci. merci Er der nogen der har en italiensk Victory medalje, der er dateret fra 1915 til 1918. Hvis du er du sender et foto af det. Tak Hat jemand einen italienischen Sieg-Medaille, die 1915 datiert ist - 1918. Wenn Sie bitte eine Fotografie davon. Danke Υπάρχει κάποιος που έχει ένα ιταλικό Μετάλλιο νίκης, που χρονολογείται από 1915 έως 1918. Αν δημοσιεύσετε μια φωτογραφία παρακαλώ του. σας ευχαριστώ Qualcuno ha una medaglia italiana Vittoria che è datato 1915-1918. Se si prega di inviare una sua fotografia. grazie Har noen en italiensk Victory Medal som er datert 1915 til 1918. Hvis du vennligst poste et bilde av det. Takk Alguém tem uma medalha da vitória italiana, que é datado de 1915-1918. Se você, por favor postar uma fotografia dela. obrigado Har någon en italiensk Victory Medal som är daterad från 1915 till 1918. Om du inte skicka vänligen ett fotografi av den. Tack ¿Alguien tiene una Medalla de la victoria italiana que data de 1915 a 1918. Si usted por favor enviar una fotografía de ella. Gracias

Well Bill, it would seem that you found another nice medal for your collection. Cheers, Jim

He has been trying to sell that medal for near year., Jim

Does anyone have a 1915 - 1918 Italian Victory medal they would be willing to post. Both side with lots of details if you can ,Thanks Jim

Very Nice Bill, It is the first one I have seen with the ball., Jim

That was a great story. Thanks for sharing, Jim

Lambert, This is a medal possibly one that was issued to member a of the 91st Division. All the clasps are correct. To me I would wait for one in a much better condition. If you are going to collect and keep them for a long time. I see them for between $85 - $125. in very good condition. Jim, Thanks for asking.

Lambert, American clasps is the fun part, as I say "what is life without a little excitement". cheers, Jim