Hauptmann

Hi all,

I wondered if perhaps someone could post pics of the full set of DDR police medals, complete with ribbons as the medals seem to look so much alike. Myself and at least one other member want to work on putting together a full set but none of my refs cover police medals. I currently have two and am hoping to get another six soon (one of which is, I believe a repeat of one of the ones I currently have) so it would definitely be a good idea to have a reference to work from to know how many more we need to get.

Also, has anyone come across one of the "Grim Reaper" Orders in it's case? Are the cases rare and hard to get or what? I have the Order but would LOVE a case for it. Could someone perhaps post a pic of one so we know what to look for?

Many thanks in advance!

Dan

the head

Hi Greg,

Very nice piece! And I especially love your last pic... just the right amount of light and shadow and it looks as if a dragon is rising up from the depths to wreak havoc... right out of one of the old Japanese monster movies. A very nice composition. And love the inlays as well.

Thanks so much for sharing this one. Even though not military it's definitely very interesting.

Dan

Those truncheons are beautiful but alas in this changing world most forces in the UK carry the American Asp. Though the BTP have an American style night stick.

The painted Victorian ones are heavily copied inthe UK and you can usualy find them at most antique fairs so if you are thinking of buying one make sure you get its history.

The tipstaffs are still used but as an emblem on badge ranks for senior officers. In the Metropolitan Police in London officers with the Rank of commander and above have an emblem of 2 crossed tipstaves in a laurel wreath. Each rank above adds an extra piece.

Craig

Hi Craig,

Very cool! Mucho thanks for the additional info. Didn't realize they'd been copied... but I should have as it seems like everything that's ever been made probably has been. So will definitely be very careful if an opportunity ever comes up to get one. With luck I'll be in a situation where I can post it and get opinions as I definitely agree that that is the best way to go about such things until a certain expertise can be acquired over time. I would definitely be a newbie to this field but I'm always open to new things... especially beautiful ones. And these definitely qualify in that department.

Dan

Dan,

A most interesting website, to be sure !!! Thanks for sharing it. I never considered the artistic variances.

Doc

Hi Doc,

Good to hear from you my friend. Been awhile. Hope all is going well for you and your's.

Definitely a great area of collecting and study re: British and I'm guessing Commonwealth police forces. If you go to a search engine and type in police truncheons or police tipstaffs a bunch of sites and information come up.

Here's the info on that book I mentioned:

Collecting Military Antiques by Frederick Wilkinson

Copyright 1976 with my edition being from 1984.

ISBN # 0 946495 07 6

It originally ran 12 pounds 50 pence back then. I think I got it for like under $5 about fifteen or twenty years ago. Chapter 13 on Police covers fourteen pages and has photos of uniforms, truncheons, handcuffs, badges and discusses all of them. Sadly the pics are all in black and white.

I did a quick search on Ebay and there are several copies listed... most under $5 and the rest up towards the $10 to $15 range. One of the cheaper ones is the 1976 edition... which I'm guessing is the first edition.

There are eleven of them listed from $8.99 an up on Amazon.com.

Even back then when this was first published I believe that the more decorative of these would fetch a pretty penny. But they are very beautiful with some having silver or gold crowns of the reigning monarch at the top of the staff. Works of art in their own right.

There are some color pics on this site:

http://citypolice.tripod.com/cuffs_and_truncheons.htm

Here's another fascinating site covering not only truncheons but also badges, uniforms, etc.

http://www.constabulary.com/crowns.htm

And a couple on the Railway Police:

http://www.truncheon.org.uk/rp.html

This one having some gorgeous metal examples:

http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results...&imagepos=5

Note the beautiful crowns at the tips.

This one covers an example from the period of William IV:

http://www.scientificcollectables.com/page_enlarge620.htm

I only wish I had some to post. Perhaps someday... I can but dream.

Dan

Hi all,

I wondered if any of our members collected these. I purchased a book on militaria many many moons ago that got into this subject and I found it fascinating. I've never managed to get a British one... only a U.S. nightstick which just aren't the same. Of course the British versions I'm referring to were considered a badge of office and in some instances the tops could be unscrewed and a warrant concealed inside until it was needed.

Many of them are extremely fancy with the various coats of arms, crowns, etc.

I found this site which I thought I'd pass along.

http://www.btp.police.uk/History%20Society.../Truncheons.htm

If anyone has any examples I'd love to hear more about them.

Thanks,

Dan

I never could find a exact match for it. These ribbons are comming out of Germany.

Hi Kirk,

I'll continue to keep my eye out for it as it's definitely an easy one to remember. If I find it I'll let you know.

Dan

Any idea what the yellow/orange ribbon is? Top row 2nd from the right.

It seems to have the color of the Life Saving Medal but that looks like this:

Medaille f?r ausgezeichnete Leistungen (Medal for Outstanding Service) (1951

From Orders and Decorations of East Germany (German Democratic Republic), 1949-1990

http://www.medals.lava.pl/de/ddr.htm

Seems to have a clasp or graphic of one at least that runs across the bar whereas the one on your's is plain. I wonder if Rick might know as he's the guru of ribbons. Someone put up the bat signal!

Dan

Looks like I goofed on the dates on these. Many apologies. My German is not fluent. How I wish someone would put out a translation of the DDR refs. I tried to translate the brown book since it's not that big but East German had so much influence from the Russian language under the Soviets that alot of it doesn't translate properly. Not as easy as it seems.

But still a great reference.

Dan

Here is mine.

This cuff title was destinated to commemorate the participation of the Luftwaffe units to the Spanish civil war. Thus it was entitled to be worn within the following units: KG53, FlakRgt.9, and LuftNachrRgt.3

Hi Jacques,

Beautiful! Stunning actually! I can assure you if mine had been in anywhere near that kind of shape I'd have never let it go. That's definitely one to be proud of!

Dan

Hi Kirk

Welcome to the forum

When do them bester badges date from , the dont look as pretty as the one I posted

Order of Victory

Hi Vic,

I believe the Besters were authorized in 80 and issued from 81 on if I'm reading my brown book correctly. The design was changed to the type you and I have in 86 till the end of the DDR. Hope I've got this right but I'm sure Kirk can confirm.

You've "got" to get a copy of the brown book. I'll let you know when I spot another on Ebay. But I do believe Kirk's discs has that as well. Well worth it!

Dan

Back to the subject of Bester Badges. Here are a couple I don't have, wish I do tho. Can be found on ebay.de at times.

Hi Kirk,

"Very" nice!!!! I generally love the BG stuff a bit more, especially since my favorite color is green but that red is very vibrant... looks great! Hope you're able to find some. Wouldn't mind a set myself down the road.

Plenty of treasures still to be found... just gotta stay on the hunt. But that's part of the fun!

Dan

Dan,

That would me selling the East German Military Reference CD's. On going 5 year project.

More info can be found here: Reference CD's

Thank you, Kirk

Hi Kirk,

Welcome to the club! I love your site and all the goodies you carry. One of these days I need to get with you re: some ribbon bars. You actually ended up with one I was aiming to get off Ebay a while back. Was a fairly big one too... I'd actually outbid you on it but there was a glitch somewhere along the way internet wise and by the time Ebay got it it was too late. Really wanted that one too as at the time I didn't have any. Even now I only have a few smaller bars so I'm still hoping for more. Just wish they weren't quote so pricey. I think the one I'd wanted that you got went for something around $14 or thereabouts. I'm still kicking myself over that one.

I'm also planning to get some of your reference CD's. Just gotta build up the old war chest again before I can jump back on the band wagon.

Again so glad you've decided to join us. I'm sure you'll have some fascinating contributions re: the area of DDR militaria and I hope you enjoy the rest of the forums as well.

Dan

Dan,

These people might be able to help, they even have a MIG , http://www.tanksforsale.co.uk/Tanks_Trucks...ps_for_sale.htm

But I would think a COUP would be cheaper than a full blon revolution

Vic

BTW this place is right near were I live so if any help needed let me know

Hi Vic,

Heavy sigh. Nothing like trying to put together something like this on an extremely limited budget! I do love the Gaz and the "German" half track though.

Who knows... if I can ever afford to add one of each to my collection I might need you to run over and pick em' out for me.

Dan

The medal! It may be a tad hard finding a P&H price for the actual revolution!

Cheers

Hey, the way I'm feeling (along with at least a few others) over this idiotic Stolen Valor Act... we might be in the market for a Revolution so guess we need to keep researching to find out what a good one would go for these days.

Dan

I'd seen one of those on Ebay and considered getting it but was short on $$'s so had to let it pass. Figured (hoped) there'd be another down the road. And don't think that one was cased.

Really love the scene pictured on this as of course the uniforms look very much WWII and with me also collecting flags, banners, finials and the like the flag/finial pictured is a wonderful bonus! Just a great piece all around.

Careful re: what appears to be a finger print on the upper field. You might want to carefully wipe that with a very soft cloth like you'd use for cleaning glasses... or some light tissue. That's the only bad thing about fingerprints on metal. I had just posted a hunting sword with engraved blade that has alot of finger mark damage on it because it wasn't cared for. Doesn't take much. I always make sure anyone looking at my blades handles them properly and I always give them a quick wipe down and put on a light coat of oil just in case. So far... no problems. And that's living in both the moist climate of Florida and the dry one up here in North Dakota.

Very nice... and especially to have it cased. Always a plus to get things complete whenever possible.

Thanks for sharing!!!!

Dan

Hello Dan, I guess you refer to this Vespasian Denary. The example in my collection is not of the best but you can get the idea. As you say, the Roman coins, as so many of the items in our collections, encase so much history: military, political, artistic and you mention it. I have a special passion for Roman coins. If you want to see some more pieces of the Flavian Dinasty have a look here: http://www.grifomultimedia.it/adg/monrom/flavia.htm#

Eduardo

Hi Eduardo,

Terrific site! I'll be going through it in more detail later. Very enlightening and well laid out. And oh how I love the eagle on your coin! That is a beautiful piece!

Many thanks for posting both.

Dan

A shame though that so many of these "patriots" are the ones who also voted to screw so many vets out of their medical benefits! But of course they won't bring that up will they? If they'd wanted to honor the vets then they should have left that one on the scrap heap of history.

Politicians are all crooked as a dogs hind leg!

Dan

Looks good to me even bad pics, but in very poor condition. Good luck to restore it ...

Hi Jacques,

Again, sadly I no longer have this one. Traded it off a number of years ago. If I discover that it is possible to get it restored I will have to try to contact the person I traded it to as he most likely still has it. Perhaps he'll want to get it done. Would be nice to bring it back to some semblance of it's original glory.

Dan

Hello to all,

Eric is right, any cleaning of coins is a serious matter, specially when dealing with base metal. As Dan mentions, patinas are desirable. It is such a theme that in my decades collecting Roman coins I still prefer not to manipulate them. I rather leave that job to profesionals.

Dan, to scan the coins you normally have to play with the ilumination. There are so many Roman coins dealing with the military history of the empire and before the Empire. Here I just post a denary of the Imperatorial period (between the Republic and the Empire or Civil Wars Period) This coins was issued by Marc Antony (43-28 BC) and there is one for each legion. The coin here presented is of the 5th Legion as can be seen under the standarts and eagle LEG V. The other side presents a sailing Galley.

It is possible to have a Military History of Rome just from its coins. The weapons is just one of the subjects.

Eduardo

Hi Eduardo,

Emails sent. So many beautiful pieces and so much history in such small packages! It will never cease to amaze me. If only these small objects could talk... but of course that goes for so much of what we collect. One can only imagine the soldiers, merchants, politicians and rich and poor folk alike who all handled such coins and used them in everyday commerce. And they are also miniature works of art as well. An awful lot in such a small piece of metal.

Love the one you posted last... have seen several on Ebay but generally they're fairly worn down. There's one particular one I have been dying to get an example of... but I'll have to find an example to show you. The Emperor might have been Vespacian but on the reverse is an eagle which is very similar to that used on our Washington Quarter all these years... well at least before the state quarters altered the reverse design.

Dan

Hi Dan,

Yeah no details will be relaesed until the item is in my grubby little mits

Order of Victory

Hi Vic,

Kinda figured. Well, here's hoping it get to you mucho quicko and that you can then show it off in all it's glory. I for one can't wait!

I'll be right there pacing the floor with you my friend.

Dan

An awesome collection you are amassing there! I really love that worn Order of Glory 3rd class!

Hi Paul,

Many thanks my friend. Again... nothing really spectacular like from Marshals, Generals, Admirals and famous individuals... just good old, gritty down to earth, hard earned and proudly worn goodies. And on that Glory... I can't wait to be able to have the pieces on that bar and the other researched to A) confirm if they do belong together which I agree is doubtful... and if not at least uncover their history (knock on wood) and know the why's and wherefor's behind them. Perhaps she's got a great story to tell. If all works out then hopefully I'll be able to get going on all this in another few months and hopefully by the end of the year we'll know all there is to know (again knock on wood).

Dan

Hi Charles,

Again WOW! You just have a terrific collection. So many great cased enameled goodies... and the groups... I would dearly love even one such group. Gives me alot to shoot for. Hoping for as nice a Soviet group and perhaps even a DDR one at some point down the road.

Just spectacular! I'm constantly in awe of the things you come up with. Keep up the great work my friend!

Dan

HI Dan -

Think of your medals like a big bag of heroin. (though the only two that appear on the legislation is your Navy Cross and Purple Heart) You can have your big bag of heroin in your house, and the only way the man can come and take it away is with probable cause to search or a search warrant. Now - you can have your big bag of heroin, but you cant take it out of the house and 'move' it from one place to another, you certainly dont want to go out in the streets and say 'look at me! I have a big Navy Crosss - ahemm bag of herion!' You certainly dont want to take that bag o heroin and try and sell it to someone else, but as long as you have it safe and tidy in your home and you remain a model citizen - they cant touch you.

Think of it this way - as others have said - the jist of the legislation was written just like drug laws - the main reason the drugs get around to new users, new markets, etc... is because of transportation. So possesion (outside the home - in public) is illegal becuase you are transporting it from one place to another.

What I am waiting to see is the first real court case about this as its such a crappy written piece of legislation that contardicts so many other precidents that it would be an ambulance chacers dream to go to trial with this one.

Here is a kilo of 'contraband'

(for all of those who think I am being to sarcastic - yep - its either that or cry.....

Hi Charles,

Hey, let the sarcasm fly my friend. I don't think this moronic legislation deserves anything less. I just can't tell you how upset I am over the whole thing and I know I'm far from being alone. Yet again in one fell swoop they have thrown the baby out with the bath water with no concern whatsoever over how this is going to effect innocent, law abiding historians, collectors, dealers, etc. I have no problem with going after those who would pose as war heroes, vets, etc. But there has to be a better way of doing it. It's just like what they've done time and time with the gun situation. The criminals could care less how many laws go on the books... it doesn't stop them for a second. I mean, think about it... they're career is breaking the laws!!!! The only ones it affects are those of us who obey the law. And as a reward we keep getting kicked in the backside by our own government!

I mean, there were a few more pieces I'd have really loved to have. I was hoping to get the Commander of the Legion of Merit as well as the Officer's grade to finish out my set. I'd also have liked to get the Army Distinguished Service Cross and Medal and a Silver and Bronze Star. I think that would have been about it. Now, unless I go via the black market, etc. I'm probably going to have little chance of getting any of them... unless, by some miracle, they come to their senses and either amend or dump this insanity they've unleased. I can only hope organizations like OMSA raise Cain over this issue as well as dealers and collectors alike.

I swear... I just get so tired of fighting just to be left alone. It seems that the powers that be will not be happy until they can install cameras and mikes in our homes in every room, nook and cranny as well as our vehicles, offices, etc., and track our every move from birth to death. Sounds alot like the DDR doesn't it?

Well, I strongly suggest we all learn the following song:

http://www.uni-stuttgart.de/STUDinfo/hilar...E/gedanken.html

Die Gedanken sind frei, wer kann sie erraten,

sie fliegen vorbei wie n?chtliche Schatten.

Kein Mensch kann sie wissen, kein J?ger erschie?en

mit Pulver und Blei: Die Gedanken sind frei!

Ich denke was ich will und was mich begl?cket,

doch alles in der Still', und wie es sich schicket.

Mein Wunsch, mein Begehren kann niemand verwehren,

es bleibet dabei: Die Gedanken sind frei!

Und sperrt man mich ein im finsteren Kerker,

das alles sind rein vergebliche Werke.

Denn meine Gedanken zerrei?en die Schranken

und Mauern entzwei, die Gedanken sind frei!

Drum will ich auf immer den Sorgen entsagen

und will mich auch nimmer mit Willen verklagen.

Man kann ja im Herzen stets lachen und scherzen

und denken dabei: Die Gedanken sind frei!

Ich liebe den Wein, mein M?dchen vor allen,

sie tut mir allein am besten gefallen.

Ich bin nicht alleine bei meinem Glas Weine,

mein M?dchen dabei: Die Gedanken sind frei!

Used to drive the nazi's positively nuts! Perhaps it will do the same to these morons!!!! One can only hope.

My thoughts are definitely free and they can't take that way from me.

Sorry... this whole issue just makes my blood pressure go through the roof!

Many thanks my friend. Let's pray that some sanity returns and they amend or dump this stupid law and we can all get back to normal.

Dan

Hi all,

I let this go ages ago (Wish I'd kept it! ) but found my old pics the other night to post in the restoration section... and figured I should pop it on here as they might be of interest. This was how I got it and at the time I felt there was probably little hope of a restoration... but after seeing some of the work on the restoration thread I'm now beginning to wonder.

Sorry the pics are not better quality but it's a scan from an old 35mm.

Dan

Row 3 (obverse/reverse)

Row 4 (obverse/reverse)

Row 5 (obverse/reverse)

One can only imagine how many in the Roman Legions might have been paid with coins like these. It gives me chills how much history is in my hand every time I hold them.

Dan