Hauptmann

Oh no not another collection...........

BTW what is te highest Order of the DDR and are they easy to get hold of

Order of Victory

Hi Vic,

Okay... here's a thread which touches on this subject:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9349...533;entry100712

This one will allow you to go to two sites where Orders and medals of the DDR are shown:

http://www.geocities.com/athens/4795/DDR.htm

I've borrowed the following pics from Megan Robertson's site... if there is any objection I'll be happy to remove them. The exception being the pic of the Banner der Arbeit set.

I believe it would be the Order of Karl Marx (Karl Marx Orden):

[attachmentid=51241]

[attachmentid=51242]

And it's ribbon:

[attachmentid=51243]

With close runners up being:

Friendship Star of the DDR (equivalent to the Soviet Order of Friendship):

[attachmentid=51246]

[attachmentid=51247]

The Hero of the DDR (Held der DDR):

[attachmentid=51248]

[attachmentid=51249]

And last but not least... the Hero of Labor of the DDR (Held der Arbeit der DDR):

[attachmentid=51250]

[attachmentid=51251]

These are all pretty hefty in price and I haven't seen a ton of them come up. I "think" there are repro's of at least some of them... I missed out on one for the silver grade of the Friendship Star right before we moved from North Florida about a year ago.

But there are plenty of very nice Orders which can be had for not too much. One of my favorites is the Banner der Arbeit (Banner of Labor) which comes in three classes here shown from my collection:

[attachmentid=51256]

The classes are the same with minor manufacturing variants... with the exception of the metal clasps on the ribbon mount and ribbon bar. They show the classes I, II, and III.

I'd highly recommend your checking out the post 1945 German section where there are quite a number of DDR posts:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showforum=136

including that of my humble DDR collection:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=8727

Hope this helps... and welcome to yet another slippery slope! And please don't hesitate to ask if you need any help, etc. If I can I'll be happy to be of assistance.

Dan

Thanks Dan and Kevin

Wow, that takes my count of DDR items to two

Order of Victory

Hi Vic,

Well, as McCloud used to say all the time "Well... there ya go!" I was told once long ago... if you have two or more items that are interrelated in some way... you have a collection!

So welcome to the wonderful world of collecting DDR militaria. Easy to get hooked. Most of this stuff is still extremely cheap, although prices on some have gone up over the years it's not near as bad as in most other areas. And you can still pick up bargains... especially in insignia and field gear... but even in awards. Alot of people simply don't know what they have and just want to get rid of it, sometimes by the box load.

There's a wide variety out there... some a bit tougher than others. They had a small navy and an extremely small paratrooper force. So those items tend to be a bit pricier in my experience... and at times a bit harder to get.

Army and Border Guard are extremely common for the most part and the Air Force seems to be as well. There was also an air arm of the Border Guard which used AF style collar tabs but with green backing. Those come up but seem to show up a bit less than the others.

Even full uniforms are cheap for the most part. There's tons on Ebay and plenty of bargains still to be had.

Here's another site I check out on occassion and have for years. They have interesting articles and tons of great pics. And also a sale section, etc.

http://militaria.gunboards.com/

You'll see down towards the bottom they have the DDR section, DDR Trader and DDR Discussion Forum.

There's also quite a bit of material available on-line. On Ebay there are reference discs that come up from a dealer down in Florida that I've heard are quite good. Basically he's scanned quite a number of DDR references onto the discs so it's like getting a ton of refs for around $12 plus shipping if I remember correctly. Might be just under $20... can't remember for sure right now but you'll know it when you find it. He's on the above forum and puts his stuff up in the sales section. And when you consider that alot of DDR refs run in the $40 and up range this is cheap to get a ton in one fell swoop complete with all pics, etc. just as in the book itself.

Just do me a favor... leave a few treasures for me!

Dan

Not really, to the above, but it would be nice

Hi Chris,

Sorry... if this is incorrect but I got it off what I thought was an excellent documentary on The Legion from either The History Channel or The Military Channel several months back. I believe I have it on tape somewhere in my collection now, but it's on one of the tapes I haven't cataloged yet. It went into a good deal of detail from start to finish on how folks join, the procedures for recruits, etc, all the way through someones enlistment and also showing some who have been in for looooong periods of time... they've made the Legion their home. Speaking of homes, it even stated that they have a rest home where Legionaires can go to spend their final days if they so choose.

Update: I just did a quick Google search and found this... it sounds familiar and may actually have been the one so it may have been the Discovery Channel:

http://www.napoleonguide.com/doco_foreign.htm

I'll try to get my tapes cataloged in the next week or two if possible as work has been pretty heavy of late and I'm far behind in getting this done... much as I would like to finish it. I'd like to watch it again as it as fascinating. They interviewed Legionaires both past and present and showed training sessions for both raw recruits as well as seasoned members of the Legion.

And now... back to our original reply.

I admit I'm far from an expert in this area... it's something I've had a passing interest in and I'd read a few books many years ago... but mostly basic stuff on some of their military operations and such. This documentary gave far more info than I'd ever seen before.

And they did indeed make those statements, both about the new identities, passports, French citizenship as well as the phone number. And they showed either photos or video (can't remember which now) of the presentation to General Schwarzkopf and he was one of those interviewed for the program and it was him, personally, on video, who told the story of the presentation and the fact that they gave him this card and what he was told it was for. And I've no reason to doubt the General's word on any of that.

So again, if I got anything wrong many apologies to all.

Dan

Hello,

I have got these parts from private. I was told that the owner was a german soldier who fought after the WII for the French in Asia. I know nothing about this part of collecting military and so may I ask you on the one hand if there is in general interesting in this kind and on the other what is a fair price to ask for (all together).

Thank you very much for your help and with best regards

isonzo

Hi Isonzo,

Very nice grouping. If you sell it though please try to keep it all together as a group. It would be a shame to see it split up. Any chance of getting any more info, the name of the soldier, etc? That would be great to add to it and keep with it as well.

To be honest, this is the first good sized grouping I've ever seen from the Legion. They're a fascinating group and make a terrific study. Basically, once a Legionaire, always a Legionaire. You volunteer and join them and basically you belong to them for the term of the enlistment... with the agreement that they are totally within their rights to send you on what amount to suicide missions where you are not expected to survive.

You are "expected" to learn enough French to get by and to be able to understand your superiors... basically within your first couple of weeks. And I mean you are "expected" to learn... in otherwords, you learn or else!

If you have a shady or criminal background... no problem. They give you a new identity, French passport, etc. If you stick it through and then decide to "retire" at the end of your tour you have the option of keeping your new identity with all proper papers, etc, or reverting back to your original identity.

You are also by my understanding, given a phone number which you are to call if you ever get into trouble and they will send help. They made General Norman Schwarzkopf an honorary Legionaire and he was given a card with such a number. And he was told... if you're ever in trouble, anywhere, anytime... simply call that number and they will come and extricate him from said trouble.

They go through some of the toughest training in the world... and if you die during training... c'est la vie! All part of the contract.

Just an amazing organization.

Best of luck with it,

Dan

Lastly for today, the back of the Hitler May 1936 speech pic.

Thanks for looking,

Pat

Hi Pat,

Nice pics. Hope you're able to get the full book. They're very nice. I'll try to do some of mine as well as a few singles I have later today... bit too late to crank up the bunker computer tonight as it's 2:40 a.m. here.

I have the Adolf Hitler one as well as both volumes of Olympia all complete.

As far as translation on these... it's not too hard to get used to the fonts they used on these... very similar to some of the newspapers and books of the era. Remember that they have a strange character that is basically a long S sound.

Here's a list of what you'll need for the next step:

?

?

?

?

?

?

?

And here's a link to a free online translation program:

http://translation2.paralink.com/

Simply block and copy the above special characters over to Notepad on your computer and name it something like German Special Characters. When you run into any of these in the document or item you want to translate, just go over to your Notepad file, block out and copy the character you need in either capital or lower case and paste it into the proper place in what you're putting in the translation program.

Then go to the translation site, set it for German to English and type in a few lines up to a small paragraph from what you want to translate using the system (copying and pasting the special characters as above) in this instance the back of your photos.

Hit translate and it will do the work and come up with a translation.

Now, it's going to be literal and don't know how much you know about German and many other languages. But things will seem out of order for those of us who speak English as our sole or primary language. So you'll have to do some rearranging as well as taking some of the words and breaking them down. Germans tend to take an item and be very descriptive with it. For instance... the VW Jeep of WWII... what is commonly referred to as the Kubelwagon. It's actually the Kubelsitzwagon... bucket seat car. Volks Wagon... Peoples Car... and so on.

Also, some words may be specific to the period, or to the military, etc. This would be considered "technical" German... such as specific military hardware or equipment... may not translate with the online system.

There is a German/English Military Dictionary out there... I have one. You can often find them for not too much on Ebay and you might check Amazon.com. This will give you a translation/definition for just about any German military term you can think of.

Anyhow hope this helps.

Dan

Hi all,

Got another one! I'm really gettin' hooked on these.

[attachmentid=51205]

[attachmentid=51206]

Again, more detailed at:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=8255...533;entry100640

Dan

Hi all,

Well, guess what? I just got another Umalatova OGPW 2nd! And for a few bucks less than what I paid for the last one and from the same seller. Kinda gettin' attached to the little guys!

[attachmentid=51202]

[attachmentid=51203]

I expect this will be like the last one. The enamel has a look like on candy apples. Sort of like that used on some of the Hungarian Orders. It's got a good weight to it. And although the nut looks cheap it's actually a good thick piece that fits the screwpost well. The inside of the nut is smooth with a step down as you can see on my pics above in post #25 and the outside as you see on these pics is a pebbled surface.

This one is numbered 5476 so a "bit" higher than the other one I have. Also you can see that on my first the maker's mark(?) is at the top center... this one is at the left center. Also on my first one the serial number is curved like a smile... whereas this newest one is straight across.

So seems I have my first variation if you can call it that.

I actually lucked into this one as I'd had it in my favorites... was relaxing for a bit and decided to check the auctions. I clicked on this one first and lo and behold it was ending in just over 11 minutes. I waited... took careful aim... sniped it and got it right between the eyes! Needless to say I'm very glad I checked when I did or I'd have missed it.

All in all I was quite surprised at these as far as the quality, etc. and am going to continue to be on the lookout for more. I do hope a first class pops up at a good price at some point.

Dan

and last one

Hi Theodor,

I just got back up from the bunker checking the only two references I thought might have this piece. Sorry to say, no luck.

I'm wondering if this was not used to put oil into certain guns or other equipment such as chain saws, etc. in order to prevent spills. Basically it looks like it would have been equipped with a small hose which would have screwed onto or otherwise attached to this unit and then into the item where the oil needed to go.

That's my best guess... but hoping one of the members might get this one nailed down for you.

Will be keeping my fingers crossed. Sorry I couldn't do more for you.

Dan

Thanks Dan, I totally missed that part of Vic's question. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

That's my motto... Service with a smile!

Dan

This is interesting. I just got a PM from a member of another forum I belong to. It states

Since I could not guarantee the originality of the badge (and the fact that I like it ) I passed. Things that make you go Hmmmmm.

Dan

PS;

Dan,

Basically what it boils down to, on something like this is type of construction, the materials used in the construction, and the quality of construction. Often the best one can do is to say that it is probably original. From what I see here yours has a good looking wartime weave (it appears)of Feldgrau with a proper light "canvas" cloth backing. Then there is good quality work in two colors and several textures. Then you have the original packet and a provenance (that some one else may or may not believe). So there is an excellent chance it is real. I would wager it was a GI that brought it back though, not a doughboy, c. 1944-46. That is where most of the bagged daggers and badges in packets came from when the makers factories were overrun.

Hi Dan,

On part one... this is really weird. I've had my cloth badge posted forever and a day over at the Aerodrome Forum and hadn't had a ton of response over there. When I did the scans and posted here I put in the scans over there as well. I got a reply today and actually wrote a response in which I put a link to this post here and mentioned your having posted the pics of your Zep as well as the Pilots Badge. Funny thing is, I got buried in work and didn't have time to post it until just a second ago.

Wait... listen... is that... is that the Twilight Zone theme I hear playing in the background?

So... no idea where it came from but had to be someone else. All I can say is... small world!

Shoot... sure wish I could get that kind of response on the stuff I've had listed for sale. Arrrrrgh!

On part two... I'll have to take your word on the weaves and such... never specialized to that degree, but again that's why I felt it was important to post both here and the AF in order to get more expert opinions. As to originality, to be honest I've "never" doubted that it is indeed authentic and original. My biggest thing was having never seen it... in refs, auctions, catalogs, museums... you name it. Seems everything else German from either war had a book written about it... but this piece didn't even get an honerable mention. But I figured there just "had" to be someone out there that knew "something".

Anyhow here's a link to my post over at the AF. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that more info will come to light.

As far as it coming home with a WWII vet... of course it's very possible. But if this was the case I can't for the life of me imagine why everything in the box, down to the French railway tickets, the box of razor blades, the boxes, basically everything in the box dated to WWI. Not one item was from the postwar period (that I can tell) or from WWII.

I still have the matchbooks, blades, tickets, etc. as well as a full set of the wounds which I've previously posted in my Wound Badge posts. Everything in the box was totally authentic and to the period.

Plus, to me it would make sense that a doughboy (or other allied vet) who perhaps was an MP or in another position where he would have dealt with prisoners could possible have traded or taken such items which would easily fit in his pockets and could easily and cheaply have been shipped home periodically... or even in one grouping. There was nothing "big" in the box. Only such small items that again could easily fit in a pocket or pockets. Perfect souvenirs.

Had it been a WWII GI I'd have thought he would have mostly gone after WWII period badges, medals, insignia, etc. At least that seems to be most of what I've seen come out of such vet groups.

But again, anything is possible. I'm trying to be open minded about it. But as I stated in my post at the AF... unless someone shows me evidence to the fact that it's not original I just find it hard to believe that it's anything but original. I just can't believe in that entire box with as many items as were in it, all totally, absolutely authentic, that this would be the only item that was fake... with no motivation of a big profit for the seller... who knew nothing of nor had any interest in military at all. Plus the fact... I've never seen a packet marked like this. Only LDO's from the TR period and generally from both wars the ones where the title of the award was printed on the packet. This one states it's from a Clockmaker or Watchmaker and Goldsmith or "jeweler" and gives his address. Would a faker honestly have the brains to come up with something like this? And not having seen similar examples... at least assuming they're not common... wouldn't they have simply popped the name of the award on the packet as that would be what most folks would be familiar with?

To me... far too many things scream original on this set. I'll go so far as to say if I'm wrong... then all the study, experience, expense in references, trips to museums, seeing other collections, etc., have all been in vain and I've not learned a thing.

Well, here's hoping something will come out of the woodwork. I'd LOVE to see pics of this or similar cloth badges in use during the period in question. Shoot... even postwar or TR period.

Here's hoping!

Dan

So does that mean that 4 is the Highest

What is NVA and Grenztruppen, sorry for asking this but Im not very up on German Millitaria

It works the number un screws!!

Order of Victory

Hi Vic,

On your question on the NVA and Grenztruppen (prounded Grinztruppen by the way) here's your answer.

The NVA is the Nationale Volksarmee or National Peoples Army which was the Army of East Germany (DDR).

The Grenztruppen was the Border Guard of the DDR.

Hope this helps.

Dan

I used to have one of those posters as well... My ex tossed it during one of our moves. It is nice to know that Igor still carries them.

Paul

Hi Paul,

Do you happen to have a link to them? Might be better than getting them reprinted depending on the price.

Thanks!

Dan

Ammo box inside -

Very nice books... and the ammo box... WOW! I've never seen a complete one like that. In fact that one I sent you the Ebay link to is the only one I've seen of that type... although I don't generally look for those, so most likely there were more.

Sure wish I was there to help you dig... I love treasure hunts!

Dan

VELLY NICE ONE ODER ZWIE as the case may be

Kevin in Deva

Thought you'd like! Took some checking to find just the right ones. There's a ton outside of Laugh in and out of the few from the show these are the ones I liked best.

We aim to please.

Dan

So we finaly unearth a Rowan & Martin Laugh-In Fan, (Missing since the 70's) what no shot of Goldie Hawn

The helmet is just a shell I plan to renovate.

Kevin in Deva, located next to the Transylvania Zone

Hi Kevin,

Ask and ye shall receive!

[attachmentid=51051]

[attachmentid=51052]

As far as our favorite little Kraut I actually got that from one of the others posts I believe. I meant to make a note of from where and whom but didn't and I'm too out of it right now with work and all to hunt it down. So there is at least one other fan lurking around out here in club land. Hope he doesn't mind me "borrowing" the pic... but he's one of my favorite characters and I couldn't resist. And as you see... it's come in velly handy.

Dan

Hallo Dan,

you could always invest in a good helmet, I think they make them to fit 6'3" as well as the more vertically challenged.

Kevin in Deva

PS my office is upstairs and has a slopping roof, so I appreciate the value of a good helmet.

Hi Kevin,

[attachmentid=51038]

Velly Interesting!

Actually I've got a wide selection! Just haven't gotten around to posting alot of that stuff yet.

One rule though... never wear a Pickelhaub for such duty assignments... unless you're very good working with drywall repairs!

Very nice helmet! Looks like you're all set for your next combat mission!

Dan

Dan - No problem, you and Order of Victory have motivated me to dig thru my garage and see what other hidden treasures I may have forgotten about. I've got a Soviet ammo box burried in there some where as well as a good number of posters, books, magazines, etc... I don't ever remember DDR daggers being cheap, but was distracted by Company Command in 89-90 and I left Germany in early 91 so maybe I missed the glut of material coming out of the East. Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Sadly I think the "garage sale" prices may have just gone up!

But glad you'll be digging through. By the looks of it you've got an awsome ready made DDR/Soviet collection including references, etc. sitting right there ready to go. Of course if you don't want them let me know as donations are always welcome.

An ammo box is another item I need to pick up one of these days... a couple of German ones as well. I loved the German ones and after years of carrying some of my U.S. ones to the range I can tell you that their idea of making the handles so two could be easily carried in one hand was a fantastic innovation I wish we'd copied.

And on the DDR daggers... they used to run around $50 to $60 or thereabouts when I first started to see them. A bit more for the cased General's/Admirals. Oh how I wish I'd grabbed what I wanted then. But again at that time "everyone" was saying how such things were junk, would never be desireable, etc. so I figured they'd always be cheap. Arrrrrgh!

A lesson and a case in point... those who figure the same on Umalatova awards... just send them all to me and I'll be very happy! Cause one mans junk is another man's treasure.

Oh, do yourself a favor... check out anything you're not sure of values on on Ebay. I checked for Soviet papers, just from the homepage and quite a few came up. I think you'll be interested to see the prices for them. It really surprised me. Of course I'm talking myself out of the market here but feel you'd like to know.

Shoot us some more pics when you can... love seeing all this good stuff.

Dan

Well Im currently learning Russian for two hours every Sunday with a very nice lithuainain women who lives near me

Order of Victory

Well there ya go! I think we all need a very nice Lithuainian woman to teach us Russian.

Actually I've taken both French and German (both the Hogan's Heroes, TV war series and war movie courses ) and have always had an interest in various other languages. My problem was always in not having anyone to speak them with. And when you don't speak it, think in it, etc. you lose it over time. I managed to keep up a good bit through my involvement in the hobby as it's almost a necessity. But oh how I wish I'd had someone to speak it with on a daily basis as I'm sure I would have been fluent in now time.

Now the brain cells are old and tired and I'm lucky if I can remember my middle name some days.

But who knows what the future may bring... but if it's a very nice Lithuainian woman... I think I'll have alot of explaining to do as far as my wife is concerned!

Dan

The book in red with gold writing is the book that lists all the statutes on why the medal should be awarded, it has copies of the citation documents etc in the back

Its avery useful book if you read Russian

Order of Victory

Hi Vic,

That does sound like a good one... something that Rick would probably love! Or Dave for that matter. As for me... I'm only beginning to pick up a word here and a word there. It's amazing really but where before it was just a bunch of cyrillic characters... now I see a word or words and it pops into my head in Engrish!

I have several books that are all in Russian... oh how I wish I could read them. Perhaps one of these days I'll take a course. It's very tempting.

Dan

Dan - I have two field hats one is a 59 the other a 54. I don't believe I have any General's hats, I think these are just field grade officer parade hats. But I could be wrong, my area of interest is East German, not Soviet. Kevin

In your post #29 the AF (blue band) cap on the top shelf and on the top... not sideways like the others... from the badge I "thought" it's was a General's cap due to the wide wreath on the cockade... but seems this is just the parade version. Sorry bout that!

The field grade peaked cap I mentioned is bottom shelf, left top with it's brim touching the beer mug. It's all green with the peak and strap being in a dark olive green and the buttons and cockade in a lighter shade of green.

That's the type I've been trying to find in 59. They pop up on occassion... generally when I don't have to cents to rub together.

Dan

One more -

Yup... just give me some time to get my warchest built up... and give me a call about a day or two in advance of the big garage sale and I'll be there will bells on!

Seriously... fantastic collection... all the way around. I salute you for a job well done.

Thanks so much for sharing all this great stuff. And everything in such terrific condition. Quite a treat with which to end the day.

Dan

A few books, I have a couple more boxes of soviet books and magazines burried in the garage somewhere -

Instant Soviet library... I love it! Beautiful books in great shape. What is the one with the red cover and gold titles that's standing up?

I can tell if you "ever" have a garage sale you need to tell me in time so I can catch the first flight!!!!

Dan

A few Hats from Berlin flea markets-

Love the General's cap. Out of curiosity what size is the Soviet field peaked cap? I've been looking for one in the 59/60 range forever and a day. I have one in a smaller size with the original tag still attached but always wanted the bigger size.

Dan

Red Star Newspaper, I have a few dozen of these kicking around the house -

Very cool on both counts. Talk about wanting to have digging privileges!

Me like... me definitely like!!!!

I've been tempted to find some papers but so far I haven't. But I think they'd definitely look good with a display. I may have to find some at some point for the Cold War display I want to put on at our local museum. Would make a nice addition I think to all the other goodies. And folks up here lived through all that with the missile bases and AF bases in our state but doubt they've ever seen things from the other side.

Guess I'm off to Ebay to hunt up some as they really look great.

Dan

Ta Da.. .If I knew how much they were worth I'd have taken better care of it. Still looking for the BOAR copy with English text.

Hey, looks great to me. Also love that DDR dagger paperweight. Yet another piece I'm dying for but should have gotten when they were cheap.

Thanks much for digging it out and posting it.

Dan