Hauptmann

Hi Sam,

Hey, wow... an appreciative audience for my soapbox rantings... now all I need is a beer hall and... oh wait, did I say that out loud!

Seriously though... I found this quote... can't remember if it was used by another member here or what but I fell in love with it:

As Benjamin Franklin said:

If a man empties his purse into his head,

no man can take it away from him.

An investment in knowledge always pays the

best interest.

I'm working hard towards my copy of the McDaniel Soviet reference as we speak. Hopefully I'll be able to order it on Monday (fingers tightly crossed) and have it within the week (fingers at breaking point!).

My biggest problem is that I can't afford every reference book known to man, at least for my various hobbies. I guess some would say I've spread myself too thin... but hey, keeps me off the streets.

And I must say... I love that book you found! Covet, covet... heavy on the covet!!!! I sincerely wish I could find one even a third as good as that one seems to be. Great find!

And I say it yet again... Rick is fantastic! Terrific! Wonderful! Glorious! The Greatest! Now to go collect my 10% fee again! Seriously he does work miracles... come to think of it he does look a bit God-like and messianic in his avatar... I wonder? Might explain alot. He could be God... or, dare I even think it... President of the Epson Scanner Corporation!

On my interest in Soviet... well, I've always been interested in it. Would see documentaries my whole life plus all the interest in the space race... they were like our arch rivals during most of my early life so we were always hearing something about them. But could never find much in detail on their militaria. Once the wall fell I was dying to jump in but knew I had to learn tons before I did. I managed to get a few pieces here and there in trades and such but never with high values. I passed on an Order of the Red Star early on which was at like $300. It was beautiful but at that stage I didn't even know what it was much less what it was worth. May have been worth that... but probably not.

Plus, my wife Kim loves the beautiful enamels the Soviets used on many of their awards. Always pays to keep the wife happy. So this stuff is something I can really share with her and she appreciates it.

Plus TR stuff was getting so screwed up with fakes and dishonest folks ruining everything. If you can't have fun move on... which I basically did. Still love the stuff but just got tired of that plus having to explain to all and sundry that I'm not a nazi just cause I collect the stuff. I never collected camp or SS stuff. Shoot... I have Jewish relatives for crying out loud! And funny thing is, I've yet to be accused of being a commie because I collect Soviet or Warsaw Pact stuff. Lord knows the commies have probably killed a gazillion times the number the nazi's did and yet there is not the same stigma. It's a strange world.

Amen on learning the history! None of this stuff would mean anything without the history behind it. I mean, take the smallest, most common ribbon or medal. By itself it's nothing... meaningless. But you learn what someone had to go through to be awarded that little piece of cloth or metal and suddenly it takes on great meaning.

Remember the line from The Blue Max? "It's a piece of scrap worth exactly 5 Marks!" Yes, but it's the deeds and the men behind that piece of scrap that make them priceless... or nearly so!

History to me is a living, breathing entity. If you understand it, it can help to guide you and help you avoid mistakes. It changes minute by minute. And what is written about it can also change rapidly depending on who is doing the writing.

Those who have lived in it's corredors scream out to we who have come after them... remember... REMEMBER! Don't forget what we have done and why we did it!

If we do we have committed a crime against all who have gone before us... as well as ourselves for we too do history make!

So how did you get hooked on collecting the red?

I'm looking forward to see your TR posts and also more Soviet as if the book was any indication will be well worth waiting for!

Not sure about other badges having been issued similar to the DVG's... have to step aside for those with more know how on the subject than I.

Well, I'm off to a long awaited and I hope well deserved sleep. But can't wait to get up and see all the new posts and hopefully make a few more of my own. Hoping to start posting my DDR collection, or at least the awards over the next day or two or thereabouts.

Have a great one! Night all!

Dan

Sam,

That's an excellent buy for $5!!! Rick, great job on quickly translating the document!!! I wish I could at least read Russian.

Doc

Ditto that! WOW! Rick never ceases to amaze... great job as always. Now everyone be good kids and start passing around the collection plate!

Wish I could find a nice document like that for $5... shoot, I wish I could just find a nice document like that! Terrific catch there... here's hoping that you find many more... and share them!

Dan

Thanks, Dan. The reason i said it was rude was that i know a few people who don't like talking about prices and so forth, believing it "Isn't proper". I personally see no problem with it, as it helps us collect smarter and more safely.

I wouldn't be suprised if the number did come up eventually, probably in the middle of something completly unrelated. I wonder whether there is a way to 'date' these, by using the numbers of IDed badges as rough guide, similar to the system used in the soviet awards section below.

I myself don't collect TR items much, but i must admit to having a soft spot for some of the political items and documentation. I guess i'll have to dig some of it and post it now, eh?

Whoops, back on to the topic, what is the DVG Westmark badge for? Probably something amazingly simple and obvious, but i can't for the life of me recall it.

Sam.

Hi Sam,

Personally I agree on pricing. As for myself I feel like a total cretin if I know everything else, I buy something and end up "then" being told by fifty of my fellow collectors that I paid too much and could have had it for pennies on the dollar. In my eyes, we need to teach not only about repops, dishonest dealers, etc. but also things like pricing. And that tends to vary so much throughout the country and the world. In some locals daggers seem more popular... in other medals. At least that's how it was back in the day... assuming it's the same now. If I remember correctly Tennessee and Kentucky used to drink up daggers like no tomorrow as a for instance.

And I'm not trying to say anything to go against the fact that "gentleman" should not brag about how well they did on this or that purchase. I, personally never take such as bragging unless it literally is written to come across in that way. I think most of us are mature enough to know the difference. I ask about pricing quite often... and often don't get answers. So I flounder... and end up very frustrated. I have a ribbon bar that I just purchased which I "think" I did well on... but so far no confirmations on that. So I just hope it was money well spent. It was an item I didn't set out to get but as it was so unusual and I got the thumbs up on it from two people I deeply respect I went for it. I'm proud to have it in my collection... well once it arrives that is... but I'd really like to know how well I did on it.

Money has of course always been a tricky subject... along with sex, politics and women (in the case of men) and such subjects are generally taboo in an officer's mess, at least in the U.S. for the reason that such subjects can get some folks hot under the collar.

So I deeply hope no one will take anything either of us are saying here in a bad way as that is certainly not how it's meant. To me it's like any other piece of info I want to be armed with when making a purchase. Do I get this one for $$$$ or should I wait, comfortable in the knowledge the same or better can generally be had for $? I'd much rather know before I reach back and grab my wallet and start forking over my hard earned cash. And honestly, there are pieces that I just don't know this on.

Thankfully, when I was recently "seriously" considering trying to work out a purchase on a Soviet medal with document, I shared this with one of the members and asked for advice. He said steer clear. Number one the set was a mismatch... which as I do not read cyrillic I didn't know and number two they went for much less than what it was being advertised for... and commonly so. So I'm now happy to wait, secure in the knowledge that another, perhaps several, will come my way and for much less than I was possibly prepared to shell out.

Actually if you check out my original GPB post:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7391

you'll see in post #5 Rick gave me the following info on my GPB:

"71889 was given to somebody processed as a member between 5th and 13th December 1927. My Gau Hessen-Nassau list brackets your number with these dates."

Again many thanks to Rick Reseach for that information.

And to me, that's a pretty darned narrow time frame! A nine day period! Like... WOW! Can't do much better than that unless you nail it on the head and know when and to whom it was awarded... at least not in my estimation.

On collecting TR... I've actually pulled back from it a great deal over the years. Fakes got to be too much trouble for the kinds of money things go for nowadays. Was bad enough back then. And as I've full well admitted many times I do not mind nice "copies" when sold as such, purchased as such and used as space fillers for items that are well beyond the budgets of most collectors or are just unobtainable at any price. I mean, how many of us can seriously afford an original German Order... or a Soviet Order of Victory... and they don't even come up for sale!

As for me, the beauty of such pieces is too great to just drool over them as pictures in books. If I can obtain a "nice" copy for not too much money then I have no problem with that.

What I hate and dispise are those who misuse such pieces... or pure and simple "junk" to take advantage of those who are new to the hobby and just don't know. But then again that's why I preach over and over again to each and every new collector I meet... study, study, study!!!! Buy references more than pieces to begin with. Read them until you memorize them and then read them again. Join a group like this fine club. Meet with fellow collectors and view their collections. Go to museums and view their collections as well. And if you are nice, polite and have a very good sad puppy dog look the curators of same will "sometimes" give you the private tour and let you see behind the scenes and perhaps even (gasp) get to handle some pieces you'd otherwise never see outside of reference books.

I'm a strong believer in the theory that the more good (and bad) pieces you see and handle the better armed you are to defend yourself against fakes and those who would try to con you out of your hard earned money. Knowledge is your best defense! I see an old fashioned war time poster in that...

Well, to climb down off my soapbox... I for one would love to see what TR pieces you have. I still love them, yet just don't tend to actively seek them out these days. Got far too hooked up in Soviet and Warsaw Pact goodies... but I always love to see new goodies, even if it's the hundreth wound badge. Always a pleasure. So please, post away!

And last but not least (Whew! Deeeeep breath! ) the Westmark badge. Here's what one dealer site said:

"Used by residents of Westmark traveling outside their homeland to identify them."

Beyond this I don't know alot about them. I liked the black enamel and it was cheap at the time so it came to live with me. Hopefully some of the other members can fill us in in more detail on this one.

Looking forward to seeing your posts of TR goodies you've acquired over the years.

Thanks for stopping by to chat and to drool over my pretties!

Dan

[attachmentid=39990]

[attachmentid=39991]

[attachmentid=39992]

Well, there you have them. Hope you like them. I do... for what they are they serve the purpose well.

Thanks!

Dan

[attachmentid=39988]

[attachmentid=39989]

Hi Dan

I would be interested in seeing a close up of the crosses.

Hi Laurence,

Your wish is my command!

You're lucky you caught me as I'd actually just signed off and was making a quick check of email. Been sick the last couple of days and although I'm feeling better today I got kind of wiped out with some errands and such I had to run earlier as well as entertaining a guest this afternoon. Was heading off to rustle up some grub and perhaps either take a nap or just hit the sack a bit early.

I took a chance and took photos with the flash and several lights on and it seems to have done okay. Sadly, even in optimum conditions I can't get any closer than this. Yes... I hear you oh spirit of Rick R... must... get... scanner... EPSON Scanner!

[attachmentid=39986]

[attachmentid=39987]

Anyhow I hope this does well enough that you can see what you need/want to see. The without swords is 800 "silver" marked although I sincerely doubt it's silver... but then again I really don't know what either of them are made of. Got it from a company in Flushing NY that did rather nice quality pieces back twenty some odd years ago. Actually they'd written me a "rain check" note on my order as they were out of the swords. Then somehow the note disappeared and they of course had no records of it so I never did get the swords from them. But I didn't get charged for it either so no biggie on that one. The swords was from someone else later that year if I remember correctly. And I've never noticed before but it is also marked but looks like L/56... not sure as my poor old eyes are not what they used to be... and they never really were. Even with a loupe it's just not clear to me. Could be 800 and just worn in all the right places.

I've always hoped to pick up a pair of these in gold someday to really "finish" the set for once and for all. Again originals would be nice and would definitely be better... but I know many times over the years I would likely have had to sell one or both off had they been original, so guess it worked out well in the long run. They look good in the display and for what I paid back then it was a steal.

Noice GBP! always liked these awards, very simple and elegant, yet what they meant was far beyond any rack of medals. I'm presming that tracing these would be impossible?

A bit rude of me, i know, but what do these sell for?

Sam.

Hi Sam,

Why rude? At least in my eyes it's part of everything we do and should be doing here with our fellow collectors. Prices are part of what every collector needs to learn. I myself have an awful time with this on many of my TR and other pieces I got fifteen to twenty some odd years ago. I dropped out of the loop for many years and when I came back it was like I'd walked into the twilight zone with some of this stuff and how it had gone through the roof.

I can't speak for now... but back when I got this... which was I believe around eighteen to twenty years ago if I remember correctly, I believe I paid around $300-$350 for it. Those that are ID'd of course go for more.

And yes, some can be traced through the SS ranglistes and such. Sadly I have no ID for mine but I keep hoping that someday I'll get one.

Perhaps one of the other members would be kind enough to step in as far as prices now as I really don't know. I moved into Soviet and Warsaw Pact militaria and awards years ago and only dabble in TR now on rare occassions. I've let alot of my TR go during the years and just haven't kept up with pricing unless I needed to know in order to sell something off.

Anyhow hope this helps a bit at least.

Dan

Hi Dan.

Whats the story with the RK's?

Hi Laurence,

Not really any story other than what was in my first post... could have afforded originals in those days but just didn't buy them. Didn't want that kind of money in one or two items collecting dust on a shelf. So I was insane... I admit it!

Just nice copies. Be happy to do pics of them if you or anyone else are intro'd... just figured since they're copies no one would be. Nothing special other than they've had alot of compliments from other collectors over the years. One is even marked which seemed to impress a few of them. They just have a decent look to them. And since I wanted a full set... there they are in the case.

I actually contemplated not showing them. I do have a few nice copies in my collection as fillers for more expensive pieces but figured again, as they are copies no one would be intro'd in seeing them here. So I just don't bother.

But let me know as again I'm happy to do pics and post them. Only thing is it may not be till Sunday as Kim and Nick are going to the badlands to meet some friends and they're taking the camera. I'd do it now but I get my best results in sunlight and it's dusk here now.

Anyhow just let me know... happy to oblige.

Thanks,

Dan

Now for a late war painted example which is soon to be in it's new home:

[attachmentid=39969]

[attachmentid=39970]

M1/163

Next is a DVG Westmark badge which is going with it's brother to a new home:

[attachmentid=39971]

[attachmentid=39972]

And last, but not least my HJ member badge:

[attachmentid=39973]

[attachmentid=39974]

[attachmentid=39975]

Otto Hoffmann

Ges. Gesch.

Many thanks for taking a peek,

Dan

Hi all,

I know I've posted the GPB before but figured I'd put all these together as a group, especially as two of them are getting ready to go to a new home.

So without further ado, we'll start out with my Golden Party Badge:

[attachmentid=39964]

[attachmentid=39965]

#71889

Next are my standard Party badges, starting with the enameled type.

First off is one with an unusual (at least in my experience) pin on the back... one reason I love it so much:

[attachmentid=39962]

[attachmentid=39963]

M1/120

M9/72

Another standard Party:

[attachmentid=39966]

[attachmentid=39967]

[attachmentid=39968]

M1/120

Hi Dan,

A nice lot you have there !!!

All packets look genuine, no problem there. However though the 'Field Issue' packets ? I'd like to see the reverse of these if possible please.

My interest lays within packets and cases of medals really if it seems an odd request ;)Marcus

Hi Marcus.

Not an odd request at all. Funny thing is as I took the pics the fleeting thought went through my head that I should take the reverses as well as "someone" would surely want them "if" I didn't. And sure enough...

As far as me calling them field issue packets it's just what I was told they were. They were a gift from a dealer many, many moons ago if I remember correctly, back when no one was really intro'd in such things as packets and ribbons and the like. Sigh. The good old days when stuff was cheap and buffalo ran free in herds and... erk... end tangent, Norman coordinate!

Not a whole lot to see I'm afraid but for what it's worth... (drumroll please!).

First the no swords:

[attachmentid=39957]

And now the swords:

[attachmentid=39958]

Hope it helps.

Dan

Nice addition! Thanks! I have never even heard of this one!

Hi Paul,

Ooooh... a discovery! Me like to make discoveries!

It's really a great book. Wish I was fluent in German. I know enough to get by in the hobby and perhaps then some but not enough to do an entire book. Plus, from what I understand the German language as used in the east got "infiltrated" with alot of, shall we say... Sovietisms which just don't translate well for most folks.

I've tried to run some portions of my DDR references through online translation programs and it spitters and sputs an awful lot!

But the pictures are terrific, even those in black and white. It goes in to types, variations, documents, you name it but other than a few exceptions it's pretty much just the military awards... medals, badges, etc. Also has a great color ribbon chart but again it doesn't cover every ribbon... mostly those for the military. But some great color plates of big ribbon bars belonging to high up general's and such.

Terrific book if you can run down a copy... I'd highly recommend it.

Dan

Yep, the ones with the closed pin on the back, third row up from bottom missing the gold. I think it is the same type as the one I posted, just a neat little badge with good details and a classic design.

Cheers,

Pat

Hi Pat,

The last three rows... the last three in each row... Happy Birthday! They'll be on their way to their new home soon!

Dan

Next the War Merit Cross 2nd Class with Swords:

[attachmentid=39888]

[attachmentid=39889]

And field issue packet:

[attachmentid=39890]

And the War Merit Cross 1st Class with Swords:

[attachmentid=39891]

[attachmentid=39892]

It's marked 14 on the outside of the pin.

Thanks for looking,

Dan

And the field issue packet:

[attachmentid=39885]

Next the War Merit Cross 1st class without swords:

[attachmentid=39886]

[attachmentid=39887]

It's marked L/18 under the pin.

Next the War Merit Cross 2nd Class without swords:

[attachmentid=39879]

[attachmentid=39880]

And with packet:

[attachmentid=39881]

[attachmentid=39882]

[attachmentid=39883]

And here they are one at a time in more detail. First off, the War Merit Medal with packet:

[attachmentid=39876]

[attachmentid=39877]

[attachmentid=39878]

It's marked 3 on the ring.

Hi all,

I know these are very underappreciated... most folks just compare them unfavorably to the Iron Cross series and walk away. But I've always liked them.

I got hooked on them when I received the following document from my father's collection.

[attachmentid=39871]

It measures 11 1/2" by 8 1/4". It has a big impressive seal and of course the signatures. It's all dressed up with no place to go... as it was never issued.

[attachmentid=39872]

[attachmentid=39873]

He got this way before my reference book days when I was definitely a newbie to the hobby as far as knowledge goes... still am in many ways. We never stop learning. But in those days it just seemed like such an impressive document and so it just "had" to be for an equally impressive looking award.

Nope... just the fairly lowly KVK 2nd class!

Needless to say once I found out what went with the document... I simply had to have one... and then the entire series. And so...

[attachmentid=39874]

Now please... you'll have to forgive the two copy Knight's Crosses at the top. In those days I could have afforded the originals but chose not to have that kind of money sitting around collecting dust in a riker mount. Silly me! But honestly, as supportive as my lovely wife Kim has been of all my hobbies and interests... I think she would have shot me had I spent that kind of money for two little medals.

Yes but that's the SECOND "Otter" and Our Chief Suspect served on the FIRST one.

Hi Rick,

I know. So far I can't find any pics, etc. on the first one. They may be out there but so far no luck.

Hopefully someone will have better luck than I'm having on that.

Thanks,

Dan

Thanks Dan,

Nice set you have there, I like the small oval ones. To answer your question I'm using an Agfa 1212u scanner on my MAC (the cadillac of computers) and scanning at 300 dpi, then alter the size in Photoshop and save as a 72 dpi jpeg. A lot easier than a camera!

Cheers,

Pat

Hi Pat,

Thanks! Do you mean the ones third row up from the bottom with a silver and two bronze?

Dan

Hi Pat,

Here's my grouping of DDR stickpins and minis including a bunch of wounds of several varieties, including one with the letter A at the bottom. It's the slightly bulkier looking one by itself to the left of the rest of the pack. No idea what that one was for. Any thoughts anyone?

[attachmentid=39868]

No idea on years or any details as I only got into collecting the wounds about six months ago. Before that I just had my full sized set.

As you can see I only need a round gold, triangular silver and a silver and gold stickpin to finish out those sets.

I like the highlights on yours. Great pic... so, what kind of scanner are you using?

Like the Urkunde. It's not been issued though... same as my document collection which I'll be posting soon. But I definitely like it!

Thanks!

Dan

Hi all,

Here's another to add to the list:

[attachmentid=39858]

[attachmentid=39859]

[attachmentid=39860]

Hopefully that gives the info anyone would need on this one. Quite a number of black and white pics but a good number of color plates as well.

I think this is another must have if you can find one.

Dan

Hi all,

Just found this flask from http://www.garykirsnerauctions.com/auct2203/220343.htm

Regimental flask, .25L, porcelain, Dienstzeit in China an Bord S.M.S. Otter, 1909-1912, named to: Res. Kann, rare boat, mint (900-1200)

And the old girl in person :

http://www.deutsche-schutzgebiete.de/sms_o...kanonenboot.htm

1909 - Served on Yangtze. Sold? Disarmed? in Nanking (Shanghai?) at outbreak of WWI (probably in an attempt to shield her from capture) but seized by Chinese on 3/20/1917. Renamed Li Chieh in 1917. Ended Chinese service in 1932.

Dan

Very interesting Dan! I have never seen a sheet metal version before!

Paul

Hi Paul,

Have seen them pop up on Ebay once in a while. There were like three of them, well, four as the one I got was in a group of two... one big and one small, over the last couple of weeks. I don't often see the small ones, just the big type.

They're "much" more "finished" than the aluminum types which have something like rough grinder marks all over them which you can see in the pictures... but still very nice.

Dan

I check ed my 1901 Navy RL and I find 1 Drieling with the FW3 medal who was stationed on the Otter wehcih I think is a river gun boat. Hope this help. According to the attached article the SMS Otter was in China waters prior to WWI.

http://www.feldgrau.com/articles.php?ID=11

Hi Paul,

WOW ... keeps getting better and better. Many thanks for posting that! Again I know nothing is definite yet but if this turns out to be him I'll be an extremely happy camper!

Thanks so much,

Dan