Hauptmann

The research:

And after some much needed TLC:

I didn't even notice till now that this is a T2 Starback Reverse. My first! I can't believe I was paying so much attention to the obverse that I didn't notice this before.

Is this a T2 V3 or a T2 V4? Although on Soviet Screwbacks.com I believe it would be a T2 V1.9.1 (No ray under swords handle). Is this correct?

Also can anyone tell the mint where it was produced?

Okay, this lil' guy has definitely been there, done that! But even the underdogs need love and TLC. When originally obtained by the previous owner it was covered in dirt, gunk, a godawful deep red paste or enamel paint or ?? in a poor attempt to "repair" the missing/damaged enamel. The previous owner gave it such of that much needed TLC and cleaned it up and I think he did a fine job.

I plan to leave it as is with the exception of putting it's hammer and sickle back on but leaving it so it can easily be removed at some point, thereby doing no permanent harm for good or bad. I'll pop up more pics once I have it in hand. But for now, the pics:

Before:

And what translation I have. If anyone can add anything I'd deeply appreciate it.

Documents pertaining to Bravery Medal #3.389.556

1. Award card

Booklet #A 438618

Last name: Frunze

Name and Patrionymic: Ivan Isaevich

Rank: Private

Sex: Male

Birthyear: 1922

Birthplace: Moldovan SSR, Kishinev Region, village of Ialoveni

Party Membership: n/a

Education: elementary

Nationality: Moldovan

Service in the Red Army: 10.1944-9.1946

Place of service and duty position at time of awarding: 4 Ukrainian Front, 318 Rifle Division, 1331 Mountain-Rifle Regiment – Rifleman

Place of service and duty position at the current time: Moldovan SSR, Kishinev Region, village of Ialoveni in solitary residence

Home of Record: MSSR, Kishinev Region, village of Ialoveni

14. Awards

Award Serial Number Awarder

Bravery Medal 3.389.556 1331 Rifle Regiment dated 20.3.1945

Verified by Kishinev Regional Military Commissariat, Captain of Administrative Services Golltalov on 11 April 1947

2. Award Citation

Secret

1311 Mountain Rifle Red Banner Rifle Regiment, 318 Mountain Red Banner Rifle Division, 4 Ukrainian Front Order 09/N dated 20 March 1945

On behalf of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet USSR, I award the Bravery Medal to:

20. Assistant Heavy Machine Gunner Private Ivan Isaevich Frunze – 1 Machinegun Company,

who in the regiment’s offensive fighting was wounded on 28.1.45 near the village of Bystra

(Poland).

b. 1922, Moldovan, non-party member, wounded 28.1.45, no earlier awards. Inducted by Kishinev Municipal Military Commissariat in 1944. Home address: Kishinev Oblast, Kishinev Region, village of Ialoveni. Wife – Frunze, Mariya Aleksandrovna.

Signed Commander, 1311 Mountain Rifle Regiment, Major Serov and Chief of Staff Major Bezrukov

Dan

The research:

A Christmas gift from a friend.

Some more pics of this I found along the way, cannot remember where but if anyone has any objections to me posting them here I'll be happy to remove them.

Dan

Here's a cased example. I believe made by a U.S. company years ago. Does anyone have any other info on these? Case definitely a fantasy but they've always looked nicely made and nice to display the Lenin in.

Will replace these with better scans soon.

Dan

Picked these up along the way:

Rick... yes, 1950's..

Photo by Alexei from SAF. If a problem I'd be happy to remove.

First two are WWII and third is 50's issue.

Also to quote Alexei from his comments on these at SAF:

There are three types of this badge - WWII issue (1942), post-war issue (1950) and aluminum (1960s), and dozens of variations for each type.

In the pic, not the pattern under the enamel of the banner on the third badge... that is the later (post WW2) type. Kind of looks like a thumb print in my mind. Very distinctive.

Hoping this helps.

Dan

Rick... FANTASTIC finds!!!! And that backgammon set is exquisite!!!!

Dan

Dan,

Now I'll have to leave you my cabinet shop as well.

Many regards

Brian

Would still rather have you around for tons of years to come... work on that and see what you can do.

I am very sorry though that none of your family are intro'd in your collection. Thankfully my son does have an interest... he's just so busy being a young man of 20 going on 21 that he's not taking the time he should to learn about it all while I'm still able to pass all that along. But I think he will before too much longer. Here's hoping!

Dan

Hi Dan,

That's good to know as none of my family is interested in my collection.

Since you are the first to ask....

On the other hand I am working on a plan to take it with me.

I'll keep you posted on how that works out.

I think the point I was trying to make (poorly, as turns out) is that a collector who has purchased something legally from an honest source does not owe it to the family to return it. In one of the cases I mentioned the lady was very ignorant and demanded I return the medals at my loss, turns out her only connection was the last name.

I agree with both you and Chris, it's up to the present owner and each case may be a different set of circumstances.

Regards

Brian

Brian... even were I to "inherit" your collection... I would not want it for a loooooooooooooooooong time to come. Would rather have you around... you're infinitely more important!!!!

Dan

On that note... I will add this: If you are in a family who has "anything" you would like in order to keep a piece or pieces of your families history, be it militaria or not... do not be afraid to speak up! Tell all and sundry who will possibly have any bearing on the distribution of such items (estate sale, etc.) once the current owner passes on. Or in the instance that the current owner "might" down the road decide to get rid of it one way or another (house cleaning, down sizing, etc.).

If you don't say anything don't be amazed when something goes the way of the dodo. Same goes for people you know. If you like or admire something let it be known. My best friend John down in Florida... his dad (also a friend) had a MAC 10 with suppressor, magazines, carrying case, tools, etc. as well as a .22 rifle. I LOVED the MAC 10 which he brought over to shoot at our place down in Florida at one point. I actually did tell him how much I liked it and John knew as well. Well, his dad ran a bit of a mini flea market in his yard down there... and one day (although he'd said he'd never want to get rid of it) two guys were there checking things out and asked if he had any guns for sale. Sure enough, he got both pieces and sold them... for $100! He was just the type that would do such a thing on the spur of the moment. John was very sorry it happened as he knew how much I loved the MAC 10 and yet he said that I probably should have offered to buy it from him and who knows. But at the time he'd said it was a keeper so go figure. Just goes to show even when you say something it's no guarantee. Probably the lesson here is be persistent (without being a pain of course).

My motto is: It never hurts to ask. If you get a no... you're no worse off than you started. If you get a maybe your foot is in the door. If you get a yes... well, look at what you gain. But by all means... do not be afraid to ask or at least state flat out that "if" the owner ever wants to get rid of the item of your desire... to please keep you in mind.

Now... having said that... I love you all and if you ever want to give away your collections, which I also love... please keep me in mind.

Dan

Brian, I think you make an excellent case. As you say, when we own it it's no different than it being in a museum... except perhaps the fact that it may be on public display. If I spotted an ancestors awards in a museum do you think they'd even sell them to me much less give them to me? I don't think so.

To me... if it's a person I know... or get to know over time and they are a good person, who through their actions show how much they care about their family history, and make a real effort to collect, display and cherish artifacts from same... then I might indeed consider either selling a piece back to them or giving it to them. It's got to be on a case by case basis.

But as you say, we buy these things fair and square. And in most cases the items we collect have been through Lord knows how many hands/collections/sellers, etc. We're only one link in what is often a very long chain.

I have no personal knowledge of family awards floating around out there. But I do know of two items... my Uncle Jack Burns photo album from his time in boot camp all the way through WW2 and an optic from a German tank he brought back, both of which he said were going to be left to me when he passed. Sadly his wife did not follow through and for all I know they ended up in a trash can or dumpster. I pray that's not the case. I do keep an eye on Ebay, at least for the album as I'm sure if someone had the optic... assuming they knew what it was... they'd want a small fortune for it. This all happened down in Perry Florida years ago before we moved to North Dakota. But assuming I found whoever might have one or both of these items I'd certainly be interested in getting them back for my family. I'm actually the only one who really truly cared to save much of anything. I'm also the sole genealogist that I'm aware of in my family. Everything I have will be passed down through my son Nick. So yes, I'd love to recover Jack's album and optic. But I would certainly be willing to pay a reasonable price, assuming I had the money, or I'd see about making payments if the current owner would accept that. Other than that, if it was the album... I'd at least request that I be allowed to scan it, or see if the current owner would be willing to do that. But if I was refused on any of this I'm no worse off than I am in not having the pieces. I'm sad it has been lost for future generations of my family. Just as I am for the Burn's family silver set that was stolen from my mother's house in Quincy Florida. It's that much less I can pass down. But no one can save everything. I've tried my best to keep and conserve what I can. That's been hard as we've been through a number of moves during my life and each time a little more is lost. But I've never let anything truly important go. I pray that some day, a great great great grand child looks to heaven and thanks me for doing it. That would make it all truly worth it.

Again a very personal decision and I would never judge another regardless of what they did in such a situation. Judge not or be yeself judged. Don't worry about the speck in someone else's eye... worry about the beam in your own.

Just my two pfennigs worth.

Dan

Hi Dan,

Small world, I was a Sigs operator in the army for 20 years, and one of my tasks was as a teleprinter/keyboard operator, and I was once fairly nimble on the ol' keyboard too, but

left the army about 21 years back, and have been involved in shipboard firefighting and light rescue since, so all typing skills I picked up with the army have just about all been

relegated to the memory banks these days. (the old 'how good I used to be syndrome'). As an aside, I was also once up around 28 WPM on Morse code too, all of that is now

also in the mostly forgotten part of the memory banks !

Best wishes from Australia,

Cheers

Bob

Ahhh yes, Morse... I learned it myself but long since forgotten except for a few letters. If only we could retain such things longer than we do without using them day to day. Sigh.

Dan

Actually the one in 4 is Greek... 99.9% certain. Not sure for what though. But those are definitely Greek letters. You might try posting in that section:

http://gmic.co.uk/in...p?showforum=195

Bet someone there can ID it for you. Keep us posted.

Dan

Yup... that last one is a cap cockade for an NSDAP peaked cap. Had one myself for a long time. Nice new additions!

Dan