Hauptmann

As always opinions are welcome.

Dan

Hi all,

This seems to have definitely been there, done that. Ring is gone along with the hanger, etc. And with the look of the metal I'm thinking it's possibly a dug example. Serial number is: 169420.

Geez, my old eyes can't make out any but the first one, even with those great closeup shots. Here's a listing of manufacturers I found in the hope it might be of help... along with the link to the original source:

Sorry I can't do more but I'm sure others will be able to help.

Dan

http://reviews.ebay.com.au/WW1-GERMAN-IRON-CROSS-MANUFACTURER-apos-S-MARKINGS_W0QQugidZ10000000010462273

• A F.W. Assman & Soehne, Luedenscheid

• AWS A. Werner & Sohne, Berlin

• BD Bernhard Dietrich, Altenburg

• CD Carl Dillenius, Pforzheim

• CD 800 Carl Dillenius, Pforzheim

• Deschler & Sohn Deschler & Sohn Abzeichenfabrik, Muenchen

• Deutscher Offizierverein Deutsches Offizierverein, Berlin

• D.R.G.M. 653146 Deutsches Reichs- Gebrauchs-Muster 653146 Paul Meybauer, Berlin

• FO Friedrich Orth,Wien

• Fr Friedlaender,Berlin

• FR Frank & Reif, Stuttgart

• FR. SEDLATZEK BLN S.W.68 Friedrich Sedlatzek,Berlin

• FW Franz Xaver Wimmer, Muenchen

• G Godet & Sohn, Berlin

• GD Godet & Sohn, Berlin

• H Hossauer, Berlin

• J C.E. Juncker, Berlin

• JW Johann Wagner & Sohn, Berlin

• JWS Johann Wagner & Sohn, Berlin

• K A.E.Kachert, Wien

• KM Koenigliches Muenzamt Abteilung Orden, Stuttgart

• KM.800 Koenigliches Muenzamt Abteilung Orden, Stuttgart

• K.M.st Koenigliches Muenzamt Abteilung Orden, Stuttgart

• KO Koenigliches Muenzamt Orden, Berlin

• KO 800 Koenigliches Muenzamt Orden, Berlin

• K.M.S.T. Kriegsministerium Standesamt, Berlin

• M. HANSEN D.R.G.M. 65006 Deutsches Reichs-Gebrauchs-Muster 65006, Berlin

• N Neuhaus & Soehne, Berlin

• Paul H. Paul Hossauer, Berlin

• R Alfred Roesner, Dresden

• S Heinrich Schneider, Dresden

• S-W Sy & Wagner, Berlin

• W Wagner, Berlin

• Wa Wagner, Berlin

• Wilm H.J. Wilm, Hof- und Silberschmiede, Berlin

• Wilm 800 H.J. Wilm, Hof- und Silberschmiede, Berlin

• WS Wagner & Sohn, Berlin

• W&S Wagner & Sohn, Berlin

• Wu-S Wagner & Sohn, Berlin

• Z Zeich, Berlin

• ZS Zesch, Stuttgart

• Quarter moon with crown and silver mark .800

• .500

• .750

• .800

• .835

• .900

• .925

• .935

• .938

Unknown makers: Due to two world wars, with many of the original records having been destroyed.

AP, B, C, CR, D, E, ED, EW,F, HB, HB.800, HBG, H.B.O, K, K 800, K5, K.A.G., KAW, KD, KP, KM, L, LM, LV, LV26, LV11, LW. M, M+, +M+, +M+O, MEH, MFH, MM, O, OSM, Pr, PS, R.SCH, RW, T, U, V, WMS, Wo, Y.

Dean... since no one else has jumped in on this one I'll take the leap. I feel this one is a good variation 2. I hope others will now pop on to confirm this one way or the other.

Dan

Chris, those are AWESOME! Thanks so much for sharing them. And to have the family connection... PRICELESS!

Dan

Gordon, I deeply appreciate that especially coming from you! It shows details of his peaked cap and RK which is nice. Now to find a nice frame to put it in.

Dan

Hi Chris,

Great pic! And actually I believe that is one of the Kaiser's personal guards. I have a pic of it in one of my uniform refs. I'll see if I can dig it out and do a scan and post if you'd like.

Dan

It's not often I manage to get a photo to add to my militaria collection. But I found this one for .99 cents and shipping and couldn't resist. Now I hope to get a nice full uniform shot of him as I want to put both with my Uboat badge collection.

It's a 5x7... just need a nice frame for it so will have to start keeping my eye out for one.

Dan

Definitely DDR! They even have an incorrect ribbon on the Ostmedaille (Eastern Front or "Frozen Meat" medal). The correct ribbon is:

The ribbon they have on it is for the Hindenburg Cross for Next of Kin:

Dan

Hi Dan,

sorry, but the VVO in Post 220 is twice not correct.

First it is a wrong replaced ring (to big).

Secondly it is a wrong medal to the bar or the other way round.

For this medal with the granular reverse fits only another ribbon bar, as you can see in Post 135 (no srews):

http://gmic.co.uk/in...pic=8727&st=120

Uwe

Hi Uwe,

I knew about the ring being a replacement and not the much smaller size. But as some repairs go this one is quite sturdy and well done. Just should be smaller... totally agree on that. Only way to correct it of course is to go to a jeweler and have it redone.

On the bar I wondered about that. So is that for one of the earlier smooth reverse awards? I know they used those on the higher grades but this is definitely in bronze... I just double checked it in good light. Again for what I got it for I'm not worried if it's a bit of a missmatch.

Dan

Hauptmann, I guess these these experiences make collecting a nice hobby. Sometimes you lose some (mostly because of your own stupidity) and sometimes you get your hands on some thing special (mostly because of coincidence). The fact that it's not as predictable as the weather makes it a intersting hobby. I guessluck is more important than money in this 'business'. So with a little luck I will have my own VVO soon

Keep an eye out on German Ebay:

www.ebay.de

Search for:

Vaterländischer Verdienstorden

You can often find DDR deals on there. One drawback, at least for me here in the states, is not too many German Ebayers seem willing to take Paypal. And many that do don't necessarily list that in their auctions.

And if you find one (or other things you want) remember it never hurts to make an offer. Absolute worst they can say is no and you're no worse off. But if they say yes you've come out ahead and even if they come back with a counter offer it can still save you some money.

Let me know how you make out on this.

Dan

I'm not positive but I'm thinking a modern Spanish award. The rectangular metal piece on the top of the ribbon is the same was what the Spanish use on their medals. Also on the coat of arms in the first picture... I believe that's the pillars of Hercules used on alot of Spanish coins, medals, etc. Also the quartering on the arms... the castle and the lion... Castile and Leon. Although on the ones I'm familiar with on Reale coins and such there are generally two quarters with the castle and two with the lion opposite diagonally to each other.

Anyhow hope this helps somewhat.

Dan

Plus the fact that in the first few the "tribesman" is doing away with the uniformed solder and then they are getting him. Now I assume that in a real situation the guy holding the camera taking these shots would have belonged to one side or the other (doubtful on the side of the natives) and so I doubt he'd merely be clicking away as one of his fellow soldiers was done in.

I'm 99.9% certain you are correct that these are movie stills or done for training manuals.

Dan

Actually Barry I think you may be right on the spot! That's the very feeling I got when seeing these. Posed and probably movie related. But as you say could also be for training manuals and such. But I've been involved with movie props and such for a long while and I'm really leaning on the movie side of things.

Check out the nice looking wrist watch on the "tribesman" in pic number 2. Just seems rather out of place to me. I'm thinking simply extras dressed up for the part and doing their thing.

Dan

Oh I totally agree. In this case I got it for a very very good price with no story at all. The story was just a note included with it when it arrived here from Australia. So no more asked or added to it. Just what they passed along.

Dan

Many thanks! And hey... you'll get there. I'm still locating and getting goodies I thought I never would. Most if not all good things come in time. You've just gotta be dilligent and keep your eyes peeled. And I've also found that once in a while such things just kind of walk in the door and end up in your lap. Two examples... many years back a friend came over one afternoon and handed me a WWII Japanese helmet, complete with the liner, straps (still tied in the proper way), etc., in absolutely mint condition. His grandfather had brought it back from the war. He was long passed on, his grandmother was moving to an assisted living facility and they were clearing out the big house. His dad found it and asked if he wanted it. He said he really didn't have any interest but could he give it to a friend which was agreed. Sadly I wasn't that much into Japanese items at that time and later traded it off for some TR. I've regretted it almost from that moment. I knew the guy, tried to get it back many times but the guy took advantage of me as a new collector on several other items and I broke with him. Sigh. The idiot mistakes of youth.

Then recently one of my wife's co-workers and a new friend to both of us was running the Schwans (frozen foods) route here in our town as a substitute. He came by for our order and I had him in and we talked a bit as I showed him a few highlights of the collection as he was intro'd. He had a few odds and ends he'd picked up over the years but didn't really collect. He'd mentioned he thought he had a German Wound Badge. I showed him my collection and it was confirmed. He said his had two screws on the back. I mentioned that I had never managed to add such to my collection. He said it's yours if you'd like it. It was all I could do to not fall over! And when I got it a few days later and then had it confirmed by our fellow members, not only as authentic but as a silver... it was again about all I could do to stand up!

You just never know what's coming around that next bend in the road. I pray you'll find and get that VvO real soon! And would love to see your newest addition. Will keep an eye out for your post.

Dan

Hi Keenan,

I totally agree... an excellent display! Keep up the great work!

Brian... methinks "real" honest to goodness surplus stores have nearly become "old guy talk" too! I remember when you could still find some WWI gear for next to nothing and tons of WWII material. Now so many of these places it's nearly like walking into Kmart.

It's sad but the good ole days are long gone.

Dan

Another VvO:

As you can see the ring has been replaced (very good job too!) at some point. Eventually hope to find the matching ribbon bar and case for it.

The last owner included this note with it:

This medal from our collection was obtained from an American woman who used to live here in Australia some years ago. She in turn obtained it from an East German who successfully got over the Berlin Wall approximately a year before it came tumbling down. She worked for the U.S. Army in Berlin (American Zone). She was a bit of a collector (also brought me a piece of the Berlin Wall with the grafiti).

A shame more information does not follow most of what we collect. But it was nice of them to send this along.

Dan

Many thanks Rick! I deeply appreciate!!!!

Dan

A couple more have just joined the ever growing family courtesy of koopyetz (Rick)... photos are also his:

Yet another amazing discovery! So glad that this brave pilot was finally given the proper burial and honors he deserved. May he rest in peace.

Many thanks for posting!

Dan

I'm fairly certain a good number of records from Imperial times do indeed survive, buried away in some long forgotten part of the archives. The reason I say this is from my reading on the various forms of the NKVD, KGB, etc., from the beginning of the communist takeover they wanted to know who had worked for the Imperial system, who had served it in the military... especially officers to see who would be of possible value to the new regime and who had to be eliminated. I'm sure their agents went through such records with a fine tooth comb and kept them on hand in case they were ever needed.

The problem would be accessing such records. Like so much in Russia so many things like this are still considered top, top secret even after all this time. And I'm sure they don't want to dig up or air their dirty laundry as I'm sure so many of those whose records one would find were later killed off in purges, executed out of hand, worked to death in the camps, etc.

One can but hope that in the future at some point such records would indeed become available for research, both historical and genealogical. But I can't see that happening anytime really soon.

Of course I may be wrong in some or all of this. I'm sure we have members who are far more knowledgeable in this area than I. But I figured I'd plop in my two kopeks.

Dan

And nearly forgot... I got this as a gift over the holidays. My only German screwback award... a silver one:

Dan

My latest addition... an early Souval 57 in silver to go with my black one in post #55. I'd forgotten that one got nailed as a Souval as well.

Sure hope they continue breeding. They're like potato chips... can't eat just one!

Dan

Thanks Darrell. Good to know I nailed it! So now I have an early black and an early silver 57... have to start keeping an eye out for an early gold.

Gotta keep em' breedin'!

Dan