Hauptmann

Dan,

According to Shishkov & Muzalevsky, your OGPW should be their 3h variation, apparently made heavier than other so called "Khruschyovka".

According to McDaniel it should be a Type 2, Flatback variation. McDaniel states on the Guide that these exist with a small mint mark (located below the screw and above the S/N) or with no mint mark. Apparently yours of this kind, no mint mark, right? What is the S/N of yours? I'm not 100% sure with this pic! 907735 or 967735 ?

According to Shishkov & Muzalevsky, S/N 911443 is from 1956! But he lists S/Ns between 276978 to 733913 as being from 1945. And between 45 and 56, nothing is listed!

Dolf

On the OGPW... I just checked as it's nigh on impossible to see in the pic... and yes, there is a smaller sized mint mark/name between the screw post and the serial number. The mint mark/name looks like that on the back of the Red Star... just much smaller.

Again hope this helps to narrow it down a bit.

Thanks again,

Dan

Hi Dolf,

Many many apologies! I had intended to type in the serial numbers as I know they're never clear enough in my pics. I kept getting side tracked in all this and it just slipped my mind. But here they are:

Order GPW 2nd (907,735)

Order Red Star (1,655,214)

Hope this helps to narrow things down a bit.

Sorry about that!

Thanks!

Dan

Nice little group to an old soldier who had to endure nuclear hell at Chernobyl.

Thanks,

Dan

Here are the award booklets:

Hi all,

Okay, here's a small group. I picked this up a number of years ago for $30. I liked it because of the Chernobyl medal, the fact that it was a group to one individual and that the Chernobyl had the booklet.

From what I understand it was all awarded to Kordiakin Porfiriy Semionovitch and contains the following:

20 Years of Victory with booklet

40 Years of Victory with booklet (military type)

50 Years of Victory with booklet (issued in Ukraine)

Chernobyl Disaster medal with booklet (issued by factory Bolshevik in 1990)

This was explained to me as follows:

The medals were issued by the government but handed out at the recipient's work place. So this individual used to work for a factory named Bolshevik.

Okay, now for what I was told about it:

It's a standard hard cover award booklet with the usual "valid without photo" stamp. Issued to Lar'kin Vasili Alexandrovitch, with awards as follows:

Order of Lenin (December 22, 1976)

Labor Glory 3rd Class (April 20, 1977)

Red Banner of Labor (October 10, 1979)

October Revolution (January 30, 1980)

Dates and serial numbers seem to make sense. Facsimile signature of Georgadze, Secretary of the Presidium of the Supreme soviet. Issued December 23, 1976. Then goes the standard text about Soviet orders, etc.

Okay, that's what I was told about this one. Is this correct? Does anyone have anything they can add?

Thanks!

Dan

Hi all,

Here's an order book I got a number of years ago. First the pics and then what I was told it was:

Hi all,

Okay, I got this one for like $6 waaaaay back when so if it's not good I'm not worried. So let the opinions fly.

Oh, and I think that slight square shaped discoloration on the back is where a price sticker had been.

Thanks,

Dan

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Dan

Hi all,

Finally getting back into posting. Here's one of my Orders of the Red Star and one of my 2nd OGPW's. I have two RS's and several OGPW's but these are the ones I was told are WWII.

Forgot to add this first time around but here they are:

Order GPW 2nd (907,735)

Order Red Star (1,655,214)

Anyhow here goes:

I've also never seen or heard of other grades for this non portable award either.

I've got the normal black version. Makes for a good paper weight.

There was also a miniature stickpin for this award as well.

Hi Raz,

Nor had I. That's one reason I took it up for Jack to check it out at the time... was about six months after I'd gotten it if memory serves. He gave it a clean bill of health so I felt pretty good... especially if it is the first of another grade to show up or at the very least a variation. But I think I'd lean more towards the grades theory as with the rzm checking everything and keeping very close tabs on industry re: awards and such... I don't think they would have allowed this blatant a variation to get out. Unless perhaps it was for a special presentation.

As for it making a good paper weight... you're definitely right there! And a big pile of paper it could hold down too... in a wind store. A heavy little sucker indeed!

And yours is in fantastic shape! Congrats on a very, very nice piece.

Thanks,

Dan

You did very well... 100 dollars for such an rare piece of history!! Aside for StG44s and pistols, I have not seen too many weapons with duel Third Reich and DDR markings.... Nice!!!

The only duel marked weapon I have is a Finnish captured SVT40! I have a soft spot for these weapons.

Hi Paul,

Whew! I sure needed some "good" news after that medal bar debacle. Feeling like an absolute idiot right now!

I'm sure part of it is that I don't as yet have the McDaniel book... I've wanted it since it originally came out but it seems like every time I get that much money together... upwards of $100 as I'm sure you know, something else comes along and sucks it up and then I have to start all over again.

I keep looking for used copies for a bit less but seems every time they show up on Ebay, which is the only place I've seen them used, they go up, up, up into the upper stratasphere. So looks like I'm just plain stuck getting a new copy from the one source that seems to still have a large supply. Not sure how much my pay from my second job is going to be this time but it should be pretty good. If it's "good enough" I may try to go ahead and order the book. I'm sure that will be a huge education in an of itself, as is being a member here for sure.

But glad to hear that I did good on the rifle. Just out of curiosity but what would you estimate it's value at? I know that's a toughie as alot depends on the bore (which is in very nice shape), bluing (again looks fine), etc. But this is one "major" problem I have. I don't have any earthly idea how much stuff I actually have all told or any idea what it's all worth. I'd always try to get things for the absolute cheapest price possible, with the exception of a very few things I just had to have whatever it cost... and that was rare.

Anyhow guess I'm off to the next few replies and then hoping to post some more of my numbered Soviet pieces and perhaps a bit more before the night is through.

Thanks,

Dan

Hi all,

Just got back in from work. Whew! Lets just say I'm happier to be here again!

So, from what I'm here from all here (thanks everyone! ) I'm thinking it's best to not put it back the "way it supposedly" should have been. So is it better then to just stick it in the spares drawer "just in case" the parts are needed for a repair of a legit bar, etc?

Course I knew I should have checked with ya'll before I jumped in. Feel like a bit of an idiot now... a bit poorer as far as some of the medals I've bought, which thankfully haven't cost me a lot. I figure I've now got two sets of the Irreproachable Service medals, one set boxed and the other in a riker (had those already) plus a blank doc for one of those, as well as some of the anniversary medals, which it probably doesn't hurt to have extra's for anyhow.

Was never my intention to make a "fake" or "fraudulent" group(s)... just thought it would be good to "restore" what I thought had already been. Of course I had no idea why anyone would want to take the individual medals from these bars. Was just stupid... should have asked.

I'll just take it in stride... use it as a learning experience and move on.

Many thanks.

Dan

only problem it that youl have to destroy some right medals to put it back right! grand for the realy realy un numbered stuff but for the red banners etc its kinda bad!!!!

Not quite sure what you mean by "destroy" but as far as those four that would be numbered... if nothing else for display purposes I could just put on two Valors and two Combats that were unnumbered... at least I'd think so.

But again I'm open to suggestions on those first four on the nine medal bar. Anything that would save me money, etc. as if it's only a case of changing out those ribbons and putting on four unnumbered medals "that would make sense" in that order then I'd have no problem with it.

I've got all the common stuff I didn't have on the way and should probably be here by tomorrow. That will finish both of the other bars and only leave the first four places on the nine bar.

Got to run for now as I got called in for a bit but hope to be back soon.

Thanks,

Dan

Okay... here's one I've been wondering about. Been trying to get those individual medals I don't already have in order to "rebuild" these. But want to make sure they "make sense" and are not some crazy put together.

I got all three on Ebay for $13.09 plus shipping of $6.50 priority mail (thought that was a bit high for something this light but got them so cheap what the hey?) and figured taken individually, based on what I see them for on some retail dealers sites, I saved $70 some odd over what it would have cost me buying the bars and ribbons separately.

I'd originally thought of just reusing the bars to better display some of my pieces but then when I got them I figured what they hey, I have some of them and most are super cheap so why not just rebuild the bars.

Only problem ones will be the two Red Banners as those are gonna cost a bundle I'm sure. Would almost like to consider replacing those with something cheaper. I wondered, would two Valor medals work? As it is even if they do I'll have to buy two Valors and two Combats for it so it's still gonna run a bit but nowhere near even one Red Banner.

Anyhow as always opinions welcome.

Thanks,

Dan

Hi Dan, no doubt that the pendants appear original, it's just that we see the same wierd method of ribbon attachment (after the suspensions were put together) and brand new looking 5 sided devices. Almost identical to the ORB grouping you posted.

Definitely velly strange! But I'm looking at all this in the best light possible. I don't have alot in them, probably what the individual medals themselves would have run back then outside of a group so don't think I did bad at all. And I love them and guess that's what counts.

But again, would any of the ones pictured on either bar be good candidates for research or would it most likely be a waste of time and money on these?

I'm going to be posting the rest of my Soviet Orders and medals that are numbered but as several are labor I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be worth it from what I've heard in the past. But I have been hoping and praying that "something" I have would be worth it. I do so envy everyone who has done it and gotten back histories... even if it's nothing spectacular, at least they're able to place a name and some history with the award. Sure it's great to find out it was Stalin's pool man or something really neat and quirky but just to "know" who it belonged to originally and "dream of dreams" to get a picture of them actually wearing the self same award(s)... I just can't imagine it getting much better than that.

Anyhoo, I'm off to make more posts. Will work hard on getting more of the Soviet pieces up to see what ya'll think.

Thanks,

Dan

R.Lumsden's book "Medals and decorations of Hitler's Germany" states that less than 200 of the 1st class were awarded.....I know forum member Warlord has a few of these but I have never seen a cased one.

Angolia's Fuhrer and Fatherland 2nd ed. makes no mention of a case or number of awards and neither does Littlejohn's "Orders Decorations Medals and Badges of the 3rd Reich".

Hi Terry,

Actually I think Jack does mention in FF&F that none have ever been discovered so no one knows what one looked like if it did indeed exist. And knowing the Germans penchant for liking to make fancy looking cases for most of their awards... the higher the award level the fancier or better the case... I can't believe something like that would not have had one made for it. But I suppose it's possible.

But I can only hope (dream) that someday I'm the one who makes the big "find".

Dan

Unusual in the fact that the ribbons appear put on after the backing plates were assembled, which appear to be all recent replacements. Never seen that before.

Hi Darrell,

Good to see you again as well. I mean as far as it goes wouldn't vets or perhaps even collectors possibly replace older ratty looking ribbons on occassion? I remember when I was in Navy JROTC anytime our ribbons or awards got dirty or messed up we were required to replace them. Made perfect sense... we needed to look our best in uniform.

Not that I'm defending it... if it's a put together then it is what it is, no doubt about it. And since I don't know any more of it's history than I've set down in here there's no way for me to know for sure. Even if I could remember the name of the gent I got them from there's no telling if he's even still around or if he is if he'd even remember these... it was probably well over ten years ago at least.

Again, if nothing else, for presentations sake should I try to "tighten up" or "neaten up" the ribbons if it's not too hard to do? I don't generally screw with anything other than a gentle cleaning if a piece needs it and then very carefully. As tempted as I've been to clean alot of my medals and Orders and such I've tried to resist the temptation as I know some collectors love the old patina's, etc. just like coin collectors. From my training we always were shining and polishing everything and no one would think of wearing dirty or tarnished awards.

Thanks,

Dan

Hmm. That's almost certainly a November 1950 20 years service Red Banner. No 10-14 years MMM on there from November 1944 and the same wrongly done ribbons as on your other medal bar makes me think that this one is a composite parts bar, too.

Hi Rick,

Good to see you again! Hmmmm, never knew. I had a dealer tell me years ago:

"Would assume this is a WWII issue as on a 5 bar of all WWII period awards. Not sure, but before 1950."

Another gentleman I spoke with, Ed Maier, had said "WWII to pre-1950?" (his question mark).

Only thing is I can't remember if either actually saw them... I think I just decribed them and gave the numbers so that may explain alot.

I mean either way I still love the bar, but have of course dreamed they would both be research pieces, etc. But hey, they're still nice, I love them so guess there's nothing wrong with that. :-) Would still love to know the history on them eventually but guess it's not as good an item to research as it might have been.

How about the Order of Glory and the Valor and Combat medals on these bars? Would they be worth looking into, even if they end up being from different individuals?

Also, although I've yet to actually put together any Soviet ribbons on a medal bar is this something that I should try to "neaten up" if possible? And how difficult would that be? At least until I confirm they're not supposed to be together I'd like them to look their best.

Will be keeping my fingers crossed. But many thanks for the info. As much as I'd have loved to hear great group and research material the truth is important and as I say I still love them.

Many thanks!

Dan

Hi Kevin,

Many thanks for that info. Didn't know they were covering that over there. I'll have to run over and check it out when things calm down a bit over here.

And yes, that's what I'd heard from the guy I did the trading with and got it back from. Basically anything they could scrounge, the theory was if it worked or could be made to work with very little effort and the parts on hand they used it.

I really do love the old girl and am so glad I got her back. Didn't really want to trade it to begin with but was torn as didn't want to lose the other stuff I got and figured I could always pick up another one. Was just one of those "meant to be" things.

Only thing is, I've never fired her. I hope to this summer as soon as I decide to plunk down the money and buy a few rounds. I only have a few pieces in my collection that I haven't fired. I finally was given some ammo by some friends who used to hunt on our place so I could fire my Nambu. Only fired like two or three rounds and saved the rest. And I hear their firing pins are rather fragile so didn't want to push my luck. I have a couple of Arisaka's and a Moisen Nagant revolver that I've not fired but other than the older more fragile stuff I think I've shot everything else.

Dan

Hi Dan,

What is the source of this bar ? The ribbons and the suspension are very new compared to the medals which have some wear. And they (ribbons and suspension) have been put together, let's say... in a non professional manner.

But this does not prevent the group to be a real one, instead of a made up one... Again, where is this group coming from ?

I just hope I'm not playing the bad cop here...

Cheers.

Ch.

Hi Christophe,

Hey, I said any and all comments. I actually got these quite a few years ago when we lived down in Florida. Was from a fellow who lived over in Tallahassee but had some things in one of those "antique malls" over in one of the next towns over, Havana which had a good sized antique district.

He sold under the initials DERK but for the life of me I can't remember his name right off hand. I may have it somewhere but we're still digging through boxes after our move so no telling. I even tried doing a google search as I think he used to have a site. He also dealt in diecast cars, military vehicles, German steins, etc. Worked for the prison system down there. I just fell out of touch with tons of folks after awhile as I got into other things.

Of course I guess the only way to be absolutely sure is to get something researched and see if it all comes back together.

On the ribbons there's no telling as you know how often such things can be replaced... they get worn out, etc. All I know is they're literally the way I got them... still in the riker mount.

But by all means if you can think of another way to tell please don't hesitate to let me know. That's one of the reasons for this great club after all... to learn all we can and try to keep things as accurate and original as possible.

Thanks,

Dan

I don't think these are that rare, simply maybe not very popular with collectors...Here's mine anyway. This is the heavy type.

Hi Terry,

Very nice indeed! A sharp example and in much better shape than mine. Me likee!

Come on folks... pull out those cameras and show us some more! And the prize goes to anyone who can come up with an original cased first class!!!!

Thanks for sharing Terry... veeeeeeeery nice!

Dan