Hauptmann

Watch this space !

Hi Grant,

Need I say... with eager anticipation!

Well spotted, Dan.

Hi John,

Glad I could help out on this one. I know how frustrating it can be trying to find something when you know you've seen it but can't remember where. I had tried not too long ago to find a picture I "know" I'd seen of Himmler's medal bar both in and out of it's presentation case. Funny enough when I went back and pulled out FF&F for this tonight I just happened to open to the page where the Himmler bar photos was! So killed two birds with one stone!

Many thanks for making and posting the scan. Couldn't have done it without you! And of course Jack Angolia... thanks Jack!

Dan

I am sure I remember seeing a photo of Himmler wearing the 1st Class anyone confirm if he got one ?

Hi Nick,

I remembered seeing this a few months ago and actually found your answer. Had wanted to wait until I got a scanner but as that may still be awhile in coming I felt I'd better pop this on. Was hoping perhaps either you have a copy of the book in question or surely one of the other members who might be able to scan the photo.

It's in Jack Angolia's For Fuhrer and Fatherland Political & Civil Awards of the Third Reich, updated Second Edition, second printing May 1989.

There is a picture on pages 2 & 3 of Hitler and members of his diplomatic entourage in Italy, May 1938. On the part of the picture on page 3 to the far right is Himmler in full SS uniform wearing the Olympic Decoration 1st Class. It's unmistakeable!

Hope this helps.

Dan

This is also a new one for me and a beautiful piece it is... the entire set is fantastic! And so nice to know the history of it as well as having the picture of the recipient not to mention one of her receiving/wearing the award. Outstanding!

Many thanks for sharing!

Dan

Fascinating, thanks Kevin. Need to seek his records, then.

Hi Ed,

Fantastic set! Far beyond anything I'll probably have but glad it's in good hands!

Just to let you know I did a quick google search the other day in the hope that something might pop up... wasn't sure if you'd tried that or not. There was a musician or two that popped up with that last name... and I believe one of them was mentioned as having been awarded the Held der Arbeit. Pull up google and pop in his name and you'll see the listings. Perhaps he goes by another name or is related?

Hope you can find out for sure. Be great if you could find a picture to go with the set... would definitely be the icing on the cake!

Thanks so much for sharing this!

Dan

Hi All,

Just wanted to say thanks for the opportunity to be able to post as well as to see so many terrific post war German awards.

Looks like it's off to a great start and I for one can't wait to see more!

Keep up the good work!

Dan

Thanks for the info Dave

2nd pattern Fallschrimjager, the initial issue had a diving eagle in the middle instead of the parachute

Terrific pieces Laurence, both in this post as well as the KVK's. I only wish to high heaven that I'd not listened to others back in the day and had bought up all the 57's I could get my hands on!

But I'm certainly glad to see so much of it being shown here. Sure do hope some references start coming out on these 57's... it's high time.

Anyhow just wanted to say thanks for the great show! Keep em coming!

Dan

Here's my 1st Pattern or "Condor Legion" wound in silver. Had this one for well over twenty years and I'm still very much in love with it.

It's the hollow type but with solid back which I just now learned (01/17/2019) is called a hohl verbödet. Superb construction, great shape and looks like it could definitely tell some stories.

Enjoy!

Dan

Hi Dan ,

It looks a nice early piece but i,ve no idea what it would be worth sorry !

Yep we all have regrets about stuff we have parted with , but i,m glad i,m not mixed up in the third reich stuff anymore there are just too many fakes about , mind you the fakers are creeping into the 1957 stuff now !

That's okay. I'm ahead of the game now just knowing it's Baden, thanks to you! Perhaps one of the other members will come along and be able to fill in the rest of the blanks.

And know how you feel about the TR stuff re: fakes. I mean, I'm so torn on the whole subject. I see the need for "space fillers" for really expensive or impossible to get stuff. But not as far as they've taken it in TR. I mean they fake the most common stuff.

It's like some of the Soviet pieces I need/want... I know full well I'll never be able to get or afford many of them and even if I could I probably wouldn't want that kind of money sitting there collecting dust. I look at that and then look at wanting so many things for the house, a special collector car (someday... me hopes! ), TV series I want on DVD sets, new computer stuff I need, scanner, etc. The list goes on and on.

But I detest folks who put fake stuff out there and take the unknowing masses for their hard earned money. But on the other side of the coin you can't say that there's not an abundance of reference material out there, both for free on the web (like here ) and in books, magazines, etc. But I've even known dealers who don't research their stuff. In a way I feel like anyone who isn't willing to do the brain work before spending their money deserves what they get.

I can't count the amount of money I've spent (not as much as I'd have liked to) on obtaining reference materials, nor the amount of time studying all that, all that's on the web, visiting museums, other collectors, etc. in order to learn all I could. I have an unquencheable thirst for knowledge when it comes to these things and only wish I could buy every book and resource out there.

The problem comes in when folks want to skip the necessary steps and when they get greedy... Oh, Rommel's Knights Cross, cased with document, cassette, etc. for $800... Then they find out they got stuck big time and they get upset! But it's partially their own fault for thinking they can get a great piece for cheap. It takes two to tango as they say and of course the dishonest fakers couldn't function without the lazy, uninformed and greedy who are in essence willing to be taken advantage of, however unconscience it is on their part.

I go with Stalin's philosophy: "I trust no one... not even myself!" I'm actually not quite that bad but I do joke about it. But I do research things to death. Better to do that than be sorry. Perfect example. We were just considering buying a diner here in town. Great business with tons of potential and an owner who "hates" management and just wants out. Problem is the owner of the building who has not kept it up as well as he should and is in a hurry to unload it and be done with it. We had an inspection done after thoroughly checking out the business itself and doing all we could to check the building. It came back saying that right off the bat the furnace and the range hood have to be replaced... to the tune of as much as the building is going to cost us. We decided to pass. Figure all it cost us was a little time and effort but not one thin dime did we spend on it. I'm sad to now see it close down just because the buildings owner is being the way he is... it's a complicated situation. But I'm glad we didn't get hooked up in it.

Well, got to run for now. More posts to do. I'm making up for lost time!

Thanks,

Dan

And i sold my Russian awards last year which included a Stalingrad which i sold for ?10 .

That's me... a day late and a dollar short, 99.999999 times out of a hundred! Sigh.

But not unlike the Fed. Merit crosses, I know if I wait long enough I'll find one. If nothing else though, if I've got the $$'s burning a hole in my pocket and can find one "reasonable" for a buy it now I may grab it.

God has a tendency to take good care of me when I least expect it. Things drop into my lap more than I probably even admit to myself. But I have certainly been blessed.

My father gave me my 36 torch holder along with a ton of other very rare pieces from all periods. I found a society medal once in a shop in a small riker covered in dust. Got it for around $30 if memory serves. Love the green enamel and the gold... and I suspect that may be solid. Turns out it's an Society of the Army of Santiago... I don't know a ton about it but from what I understand it was made by Bailey, Banks and Biddle who were up there with Tiffany in those days, medals wise, if I understand correctly. This is the highest level award in an organization that included Gen. Leonard Wood and Teddy Roosevelt as a couple of their top members! I was told they went for around $700-800 range and didn't believe it... until I saw one with damage and no ribbon go but that was engraved go for that and another of the lower grade pieces went for the same $800 some odd figure! It blew me away. I absolutely love the piece (will likely be posting it so stay tuned) and it goes well with my documented piece of metal from the battleship U.S.S. Maine.

I've had a ton of things like that happen... the 57 Olympic 1st for $40 some odd is another example. So I know I'm in good hands. When He's ready for me to have one He will provide.

Thanks,

Dan

Wish i could get an early russian front for $7 now !!!

Hey, me too! I keep hoping someone will come up with that time machine dealie and then I'm headin' back and grabbin' all I can from several periods now that I know what to grab.

It's like with TR stuff... with three uncles in WWII on my side and two on Kim's side and the only one that I know of that brought stuff back was my Uncle Jack. He was in the Airborne, was a Tech Sgt. and was involved in the Bulge. I have the SA and Army daggers he brought back along with a dress bayo which sadly looks like it saw heavy action and use. Not the engraved type... had a mint one of those and let it go. He also brought back the optics from an 88mm field gun which I have as well as some from a German tank. Sadly those and his photo album which was from his training till he got out went who knows where when he passed away a few years ago. He said he was leaving them to me in his will but my aunt dropped out of site and no idea what happened to them. More family history lost for all time.

But no high orders or medals... no Hitler's toothbrush... just same old, same old. But special because he was there and brought them back himself. Wouldn't sell for all the money in the world or all the tea in China.

Tell's ya what... if I happen upon a bunch of those $7 RF's I'll be sure to pass some along to ya... how's that sound?

Hi Dan ,

Thanks for the offer mate but i just can't see you go hacking at those lovely awards !

Also i,ve spotted a guy on the militariaweb website that is selling length,s of the neck ribbon so i,ll give him a try as i want a nice long piece !!

There is a case maker in england called Tony Yeoman i think ? and i know he does exact copies of all 3 grades of Olympic cases as i asked about getting the neck cross case for mine , so he might be worth a shot if your after cases sorry but i can't remember his website address , but i,m sure someone on the site will know .

Cheers

Grant

Hi Grant,

Hey, not a problem... if things don't work out with the other guy let me know and I'm sure we can work something out. The darker one I wouldn't have to cut of course and the other I think is plenty long enough to make two... at least I hope my neck never gets quite that big not that I wear the thing anyhow.

I think the guy I'm thinking of is the same guy and I believe I have his site saved in my favorites somewhere... I'll have to dig a bit. But as with so many things it's all on hold while I try to get a few more Soviet pieces I still need on my now extremely limited budget. One of the ones driving me nuts is a Stalingrad. They were soooo cheap when I started out and it's one of those that for some odd reason have taken off. Perhaps it was Enemy At The Gates getting everyones interest up or something. Keep hoping I'll find one for a "song". As it is I've already resigned myself that on certain of the medals and orders I'll probably have to go with decent copies if and when they turn up cheap enough. Just don't have the budget to romp with the big kids. I've also gotten to the point over the years where I can't stand seeing a ton of money sitting there collecting dust much of the time. I do make exceptions for exceptional pieces but for the most part I'd rather put it into other things. And with those few pricey medals in the capture, liberation and defense catagories... for the most part they're not lookers to begin with. No fancy enamel... just plain Janes. So for my needs a few good copies for cheap will do the trick and in a case will look just as good to 99% of the folks here who'd see them.

Anyhow the ribbons not going anywhere so if you find you're still in need let me know and we'll go from there. I'd be happy to help out if I can.

Thanks,

Dan

Hi Dan ,

Thanks very much for showing your collection

C.E. Junker i,ve got my eye on one of those lovelies at the moment hope i get it !

Hi Grant,

Just finished up with my replies. Hope to hear from you on the Olympic ribbon as I'd love to be able to change that to a . But deeply appreciate all your comments and oohs and aaahs.

Best of luck on the Juncker... I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for you! Let me know if it works out. I was sooooo lucky on both of those Fed. Merit crosses. I believe the 2nd cased with it's pedigree and the maker was like $17! Needless to say I was extremely pleased with both purchases as I've never seen them that low before or since. I think folks were on those two. Glad I was awake for once.

And the best thing was I didn't know it was a Juncker until I got it, turned the case over when checking it out and lo and behold there it was as bold as brass! I were a very happy camper to say the very least!

Thanks again for all your kind words of praise.

Hi Dan ,

Yes i got told the same that 1957,s were crap and not to bother with them . Then i think they realised there were really nice early pieces made to the same high standards as wartime pieces then everyone started taking an interest especially the knights cross .

As for the flak badge , it,s a Luftwaffe flak that has not had the eagle attached you can tell by the 2 small bumps at the top of the wreath .

I,m not sure it,s a 1957 though looks like a late war zinc made one to me ?

So it does appear to be original? Whew! That's "always" good to know. And you don't think the eagle was removed but was just never put on? Perhaps it was leftover late war stock and if so perhaps was still used for post war vets. Anyhow I've always used it as a "denazified" example... kind of fits the bill.

And even as it is I figured I did good paying what I did.

Thanks for showing her here Dan ,

I have one of these beauties but i need a piece of ribbon for her

Personally i think this is one award that looks better as a 1957 piece as the eagle,s on the third reich one,s look awful to me !

Oooh, praise for my precious! Myyyyyy precious! Oops... sorry, wrong movie.

I do so love this one... actually like the original issues as well although I agree they do look a bit like cheap repo's. In fact first one I saw was a copy and I thought it must just be made cheap. Then I saw several of Jack Angolia's on one of our visits to his home in Kansas and they're basically the same. I was amazed!

I have to mention here that I've found another one I love that I'd highly recommend... but I've never seen a real one and have no earthly idea what they run. I've only seen it in a reference (another Ebay find... Ribbons and Medals by H. Taprell Dorling, new for .50 cents U.S.). It's on page 189 and is a black and white pic. Here's the description quoted from the book:

"Olympic Cross of Merit

This was instituted in 1952 in two classes, for services in connection with the 15th Olympiad in Finland.

The 1st Class badge, worn at the neck, is a five-armed gold cross, enamelled white, with stylized spruce twigs in the four upper angles, and the Finnish lion between the two lower arms of the cross. Across the centre are the five Olympic rings in gold and above the cross is the Olympic flame. The 2nd Class is similar but smaller and is worn on the left breast."

Sound familiar? Even the ribbon looks the same... except instead of the orange color with white stripes it's blue with white stripes... and the stripes are identical!

It's kind of like what the 36 could/should have been... but wasn't... close but no banana!

But basically I had to at least have decent copies (only the 36 1st & 2nd are copies) of them to go with my torch holder, bell and other goodies in my Olympics collection. What I'm hoping for now is to be able to get a full set of decent copy cases for these. I know a place but all told they're going to run me like $200 some odd so that's been on hold for quite some time.

On ribbon... we might be able to work something out. Normally with stuff like Russian Front or Luftschutz ribbon I could just give you a hunk... but the Olympic seems to be a bit tougher to come by as you've probably realized by now. No idea what it would be worth to you either in $$'s or trade (open to either... ) but here's what I can do:

Check out this pic of my Olympic awards.

At the top you'll note the copy of the 1st class with a ribbon that is a bit darker than normal. I also happen to have a 2'3" (roughly) piece in the normal color. Now, I can either work something with you on the slightly darker piece or I can cut off a suitable sized piece (you need to decide if you need short or standard length) from my long piece.

I paid around $45 for the copy (one reason I was willing to go for the 57 before I knew what it was... seems to be what the copies run) and no idea how much just the ribbon would be worth. Can't remember for sure but know the long piece of ribbon weren't too cheap.

No idea what one or the other would be worth to you... I'd always thought I'd keep it in reserve in case I got another copy or 57 that was missing one. But doing this would still leave me extra and I feel the least I can do for a fellow member is make the offer if it would help. I'd feel more willing to let the darker one go as I like the brighter color but figured I'd give you the choice.

I used to keep a fairly large stockpile of Imperial German and TR ribbons but they've gone like so many other things. I still have a good bit of the others I mentioned above and some Knight's Cross ribbon but that's about it nowadays.

I've not done the UV test on these... be happy to if it's important but for a 57 I'm not sure if it really matters. But let me know.

Anyhow feel free to either PM me or send me an E and I'm sure we can work something out if you're intro'd.

Looks like a nice early one Dan

Does it have a maker mark ?

Many thanks! Had no idea as far as early or late on most of these but definitely nice to know.

On a maker mark... I just took another look at it, both the ring and the medal itself. I can't see any, however I did notice (amazing what you see even after owning a piece for so many years! ) that around the outer edge it has what look like very fine lines... almost like light file marks going all around in one direction. Almost looks like reeding on coins but much lighter and all at the same angle. Not sure if this is any indication or not.

Will keep my fingers crossed as one never knows where such clues may lead.

This looks like a later issue piece with the thick rim around the back , the wound badge,s are still fairly easy to find so you shouldn't have a problem !

I'm keeping my fingers crossed but right now unless something shows up out of the blue for really cheap everything is pretty much on hold while I work on some of my Soviet collection... I've neglected it for the most part for several years so I'm playing catch up.

Thanks,

Dan

Hi Dan ,

This isn't a 1957 piece it,s a postwar fire award from the state of Baden i think , i,m sure someone will correct me if i,m wrong .

Hi Grant,

Many thanks on this one! Knew it wasn't the 57 reissue... felt it was a state award... just didn't know which state it was from so much appreciate that bit of info!

Now the question is... is this anything "good"? This is another one that I can't remember where it came from as it's been over twenty years since I got it... but it looked so much like the WWII issue I couldn't resist. Probably didn't pay much for it either and that always helps. And I don't have the foggiest idea of what it's worth now either... I'm in that boat with quite a number of the things I've picked up over time. To tell you the truth I was so out of the loop for so long that as far as things like TR awards, it was like I'd gone to sleep twenty years ago then woke up and saw how much they'd gone up... I was floored!

And as I've been going through the posts here I've sooooo regretted letting certain things go over the years... although at the time it sounded like a good idea. Made some trades for some Soviet awards and such a number of years ago... and don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with what I got and I'm glad I got it all... just wish I hadn't traded off certain key things.

And this award reminds me of one of them... I had a WWII medal bar which had the WWI IC 2nd, a Hindenburg cross, a 25 year Faithful Service and and a WWII Fire Cross. Was a "very" nice court mounted bar and even had the makers label sewn on the back although for the life of me I can't remember what it said. Had another, a WWII IC 2nd, a Social Welfare and another 25 year Faithful Service... nowhere near as fancy a bar but when I see the nice bars on here I wish I still had them. But as they say, you can't keep it all... you want to... you just can't!

Well, off visit with more of your posts.

Thanks,

Dan

Hi Dan ,

This is a mongrel , it,s a ribbon for a Federal German military award with the device for the sports badge .

The sports badge ribbon is black in the centre with light blue and yellow stripes on the left edge and green and red stripes on the right edge .

Hi Grant,

Just getting up and about... was up till 6 a.m. Need more sleep but got woke up and once I'm up, I'm up. Still a bit on the woozy side of things though.

Had no idea that was the case with this one... but that after all is part of the joy of all this, learning what we have.

Got this one over twenty years ago and can't even remember from where or who. No idea who might have mucked about with it. And shame on me... I didn't even think to check on this one in my ribbon reference or online. May pop over and see what I can find... once I'm fully awake.

Many thanks! I'm off to read your other posts... which I very much appreciate.

Dan

Dan,

Welcome to the Forum!!!

Nice bases for a collection that just asks to grow, grow and grow...

Just one remark : Instead of opening more than 10 threads to display your collection, why don't you try to open a "collectors" thread ? It would be easier for you to upgrade and complete it, as soon as you get new pieces...

And for the last one order, it really deserves to be located in only one thread instead of two...

Just my 2 cents...

Welcome again!!!

Cheers.

Ch.

Hi Christophe,

Many thanks! Actually I'd been talking to one of the senior members asking advice on how to post as this was my first shot at all this. After the fact we both realized I could have just kept replying to myself... which I'd considered but didn't know for sure if it was the way to do it so I went the other way. Live and learn.

Needless to say I've corrected it in other posts I've made this evening.

The basic problems were the number of pics as well as the amount of smilies I used. And I definitely agree on that last one... broke my heart to split it up between the posts. But still hoping folks will enjoy it all. So far I've gotten several positive comments which is always nice.

Could you pm me and give me more info on the "collectors thread" as since I'm so new to all of this it's something I'm not familiar with?

Well, have to hit the bed... it's 5:04 a.m. and it's been a looooooong day. Again appreciate your kind comments. I've been made to feel very welcome and I deeply appreciate that. In a way I feel like I've come home. As you know a big part of collecting is in sharing and discussing such things with others. I haven't had alot of that for quite a number of years. Most of my collecting has been through Ebay of late and especially up here in North Dakota where I haven't found alot of collectors or shops. So it's great to be able to get on here and share the hobby with those of like interests.

Have a great one,

Dan

It also seemed to have a fairly low serial number - E108.

I did a bit of research and managed to discover the following:

After several name changes the MHS name was used for the Hungarian Sports Federation For Defense. That name was used from 17 August 1957 up till 08 August 1967.

The other wording on the badge: Kivalo Munkaert (trust me, it's what it says) stands for Outstanding Manpower (or Labor).

I could not resist... I bid and luckily won. I've never regretted it since. It's a small badge but well made and the case is as nice as I imagined it would be. Plus I've never seen another set like it.

I've been wondering if this was the standard of quality for such small, humble awards at that time or if perhaps this was made up for some party bigwig or one of his/her children?

Again if anyone has any further information on this piece I'd love to hear from you.

Thanks,

Dan

Here's a little ditty I picked up off Ebay back in April of 2005 for a mere $17.50. It was mislisted as a "Vintage Russian (?) Medal with Red Star - In Box".

And again, many apologies for the poor photo quality... I'm stuck with a digital camera with macro feature until I can afford a scanner.

What caught my eye was the case (I'm a sucker for cases) as in my current experiences with Soviet bloc awards most tend to have come in either cardboard boxes, cheap plastic cases or in fairly decent looking cases but with no base on the inside on which to rest the medal. Either that or it has a base but it's made of thin, cheap plastic perhaps with a thin coat of cheap flocking.

However, the key word with this award is not cheap but quality.

The case on this one (again at least to me) screams old world craftsmanship. It's heavy, solid and well made. That and the look of the "badge" and the fact that it's silver seemed to indicate 1950's vintage since most of the more recent communist pins and badges I've seen tend to be in aluminum or some other cheap metal if not in plastic.

And here's the maker:

I hope everyone enjoys seeing these as much as I've enjoyed sharing them. I hope more members will post awards in this category as I feel there is much yet to be learned in this area of militaria.

Thanks for having me as a member. I hope I'm able in some small way to add to this terrific community. I'm amazed at the amount of knowledge presented here as well as the fabulous collections!

Many thanks,

Dan

We're nearly there... one more to follow after this one:

And now for the maker of this award (drumroll please):

Dan

We're almost done... but I'll have to split this one up due to the number of pics.

My last piece I consider to be special. It's another Ebay purchase and again I think I did very well on this one. It was originally part of the collection of OMSA member Eric Ludvigsen who passed away on November 28, 2004. I'm sorry to say I never had the pleasure of making his acquaintance and did not realize who he was when I purchased the award. But I did some research and got some information from the seller, his grandson who was helping to liquidate the collection as part of the estate.

After reading more about this gentleman I feel quite proud and fortunate to have one of his medals in my humble collection.

Another definite plus is the manufacturer as you'll see in one of the photos as well as the fact that it's a complete set with the button hole ribbon. Needless to say I'm happy that I got lucky when no one else bid on either of these awards.

And now, for the rest of the story...

Dan