Richarddwh

I recently acquired this Saxon long service bar, it was only when I compared to another I have that I realised the ribbon is the wrong design at least I think it is. Period error or a more recent deceit? Any opinions appreciated.

Hi Tim, based on the pics you've posted my gut instinct is that it is a very nice original example. I have one myself, I'd imagine they'd be very difficult to fake to any reasonable standard for the reason of the enamel alone.

Naxos, many thanks for the quick responses. I feel relieved, I originally thought they were good, but doubt started to creep in, a curse of the hobby! Thanks for the reassurance.

The reverse.

I confess my knowledge of Imperial insignia is poor, these came with some other items. I was hoping someone might able to identify the following.

The crude stitching on the reverse slightly worried me on this one.

I was sorting through some display cases earlier today when I took a closed look at a couple of ribbon bars which I have has for a while. I was hoping to get some opinions on whether they are original, any help appreciated. I was slightly concerned by the hand clipped catch on the first one.

Magician, thanks for posting your one. Comparing your zinc version with my problematic zinc one, yours has noticeably crisper detail. The most glaring issue I have with my one, which I only just noticed is a strange continuation of the vertical lines from the left to the right hand side of the shield, and further angled line pattern on the bottom right. I can't believe I didn't notice it earlier, all very odd! :speechless:

Magician, thanks for posting your one. Comparing your zinc version with my problematic zinc one, yours has noticeably crisper detail. The most glaring issue I have with my one, which I only just noticed is a strange continuation of the vertical lines from the left to the right hand side of the shield, and further angled line pattern on the bottom right. I can't believe I didn't notice it earlier, all very odd! :speechless:

Great photo, a real beast of an artillery piece!

Uwe, Many thanks for your help! So this a post-war Bavarian Fire Service Machinist arm shield.

Thanks Paul, it does look similar. It might be worth posting this in a TR forum, but part me wonders whether it is even post war..

Thanks for the comments gents, I think it is of a zinc material ( note the oxidisation on the bottom right ). I agree a mechanic or something would seem right. I wonder if it could be naval related. To be honest I have no idea!

The reverse.

Any ideas as to what this might be? I've had it for a few years and it is sat forlornly unidentified for all that time. Any comments appreciated.

Gents, thank you for your prompt comments. I feel happier about the piece, when I look at the images the details are not too bad. Hunyadi, I am really intrigued, I can't really see the logical connection with 'bronz' and a zinc based medal with silver wash, especially as my first example is marked the same way but does actually appear to be made of bronze. I would have thought it would have been easier to mark what metal it is rather than what it isn't. Allowing my imagination to run free... Let us assume this non combatant medal was also issued with the bronz marking on the rim and not on the reverse as seen with some combatant versions. When the decision was made to switch the base material composition from bronze to zinc ( I am guessing towards the later of the 1929-1942 period of availability )a die was selected incorrectly. They chose the die with the bronz marking on the reverse instead of the one with the separately applied marking to the rim. Am I reading too much in to it?

The reverse

Among some recently acquired items I came across another non combatant medal it hung incorrectly on the combatant version of the ribbon. I have severe doubts on this one, and would be interested in other's opinions. It did not seem as heavy as I'd expected, also the unsightly bubbling texture to the surface. At first I thought perhaps it was zinc with a silver wash that had not reacted too well but then I noticed the 'bronz' mark ( as shown in the above original example ). I am struggling to believe it is bronze, too light in weight, so I can only conclude it is a copy. Any thoughts?

Clearly criminal activity, but it takes a brave person to bid on a zero feedback seller.

The ribbons have been sewen together with light blue cotton. It is evident from the top photo that two hooks, probably removed from a couple of tri fold ribbons have been sewn at each end to act as the fastener to a uniform. Tellingly despite both hooks being rusty there is no discolouration on the ribbons themselves. I am tempted to quarantine this bar for a few months and then separate the medals out. I would never normally do this, but if it is a put together ensemble it doesn't warrant its current appearance.

Thanks gents for the comments. A couple more pics, there a lot of raised bubbles, both sides. I presuming this, if fake, would have been cast. If so, would there are not be pitting opposed to bubbling? However, the fact that there have been openly sold copies of is not encouraging. At least the other medals appear good.

I seldom see the Hungarian non combatant medals they certainly seem few and far between compared to the combatant version with swords. Hunyadi, any reason why you doubt the Karl War Cross is it simply because percentage wise it is more likely than not to be a copy or due to something that could you elaborate on. I wonder if it has been widely copied, is the ribbon even the correct design? I am certainly not going to convince myself something is good if there is good reason to doubt it.

A closer look at the ribbon. Are there any other online sources of information regarding this award?

Some more photos, the last two were unfortunately not taken in natural light. Upon closer inspection I am unsure of the metal type, though it is not a soft metal.

Elmar, I will look in to 'Oesterreichs Orden' as I really need a good book for guidance. Initially the ribbon did not concern me( though I didn't recognise it )as it looked and felt genuinely worn, the type of wear I've seen on Karl Troop cross ribbons and bravery medal ribbons. Though I will take a closer look. Is it the correct appearance for the ribbon that goes with this cross, and try and post some better photos. I would say the metal is similar to that used for the Karl Troop cross which I took to be zinc on the account of the zinc pest which seems to afflict so many. I am tempted to say the chances of it being bad are far greater than it being good, but I hope my natural scepticism is unfounded.