Badge reproductions, fakes, and restrikes

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

Hello fellow badge collectors,

Please use this forum topic to help educate us beginners on spotting and identifying the many fakes, reproductions and re-strike badges that are out there. Show us your photos and help us learn how to identify the different characteristics that make these badges reproductions, fakes and re-strikes.

Edited September 6, 2006 by REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

Re : Re-strikes. I often see on ebay honest sellers who say that their badge is a re-strike from the original dies and aged to look old. Looking at the photos, how can one tell ? They look the same as the original badges. What are the characteristics to look for ?

If anyone has any photos to add showing examples of original badges next to a re-strike and can explain to us what to look for, this would be appreciated

[Tony]

I collected badges till going by normal wear and tear became unreliable and so stopped.

[peter monahan]

Personally, I've always had a problem with the whole concept of "re-strikes.

(BTW, I collected some badges 20 years ago when WWII stuff was just beginning to be faked).

I make a crummy copy of a badge in my basement or bazaar and people say "Fake! Worthless.".

So I make a good copy and people say "Reproduction! I'll give you $10.00".

So then I make a good copy and call it a "re-strike from original dies". This suggests that it is in some way official or semi-officail and therefore almost as good as an original. And i sell it for lots of bucks!

But lets examine that idea carefully: companies contracted to a government (army) or that gov't themselves decide, for reasons unexplained, to make more of an obsolete issue item and then, also for reasons unexplained, allow them to reach the civilian market. Does this sound plausible? If they are still official issue items then they're not re-strikes but "late issue originals" (I just made that up, BTW. ). And if they're not in offical use, why would notoriusly thrifty and secretive quartermaster types allow such dies to be used for re-strikes? Sounds fishy to me!

Finally, if a "re-strike" is a badge made from same original die (and material) as one issued and worn in World War Two or whenever, then there IS no way to distinguish: it essentially the same badge! And after some clever clogs has banged it about and buffed and scratched it to simulate wear you will not be able to tell an "original" from a "re-strike/late issue original."

Me, I figure "re-strike" is a fancy word for "good copy" or "fake".

My tuppence worth

Peter

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

If re-strikes are nothing more then an almost perfect fake, can some of you enlighten us on how to tell a genuine badge from a so-called re-strike ?

I have a handful a WW1 cap badges. Heavy and thicker brass or bronze badges with some portions of the badge nickel plated. The reverse side is darkened flat colored metal from being heat treated to increase strength. The flat tab is attached by braising and not soldered. But...No wear and tear. I'm confused. Mint WW1 originals or high quality fakes ?

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

To understand what is a so called re-strike or a high quality made fake, one must first understand how badges were made during the period of late 1800's-WW1. I beleive that badges were made by inserting a metal brass sheet and stamping them between two dies. Male and Female dies. This forced the design into the metal. Unlike Imperial Russian badges which were shear cut at the same time leaving shear lines to the outer edges of the badge, british badges are smooth and do not have shear lines. How were the edges cut and the outer edges cleaned up ? Was the same stamping process used in WW2 to make badges ?

Photo of a male die. (Source : Ebay)

[attachmentid=53086]

[TerryB]

Answer to Post #5: Yes

Mint or high quality restrikes...tough one.

Remember that some badges were cast, not die struck, for various reasons, including where the unit was posted. (India, Middle East, etc)

Double rings for split pins were the first type of fastener, sliders were introduced early in WWI when the requirement for badges grew a thousand fold. Original rings were braised, not soldered. That may be one give away. Sliders are easier to attach than rings, so the fakers are more likely to use this type of attachment. Sliders were also braised, not soldered.

To further confuse the issue, many badges have had their original attachments on the back removed and then a new attachment added. That, in and of itself, does not negate the value of the badge, unless you are a purist.

Most bronze officer badges featured tabs which could be folded to hold the badge in the cap. I have not yet, although doubtless they exist, see a fake one of these. I have an original RFC badge of this type, complete with "Gaunt" plate in the rear which was obtained 30 years ago before our crafty entrepreneurs started offering fakes.

Weight was another way of telling a restrike from an authentic one. (At least in the old days) The real ones just seemed to have a "heft" that the newer ones don't have.

Flexation or "the Bends" was another test, although the newer ones have aged and do not "give" like they used to. Original badges were inflexable.

Check the older bimetal ones for "sweat holes" which were a feature to allow heat to escape when adding the different metal to the original die. Some of the newer fakes do not feature this.

These are only some suggestions and not the alpha and omega of identification. The really well made fakes are almost if not truely impossible to tell from the original ones. That is why so many collectors have given up in fustration. No discernable provenence, no customer. The fakers have hoisted themselves on their own petard.

TerryB

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

Thanks Terry,

Your informations is very informative. How can you tell if a badge is WW1 or WW2 period mfg. ?

[TerryB]

There is really no positive way to establish when a badge was manufactured when it comes to those which did not change patterns during the wars. A Kings Crown is a Kings Crown, unfortunately. Sometimes the pattern changes slightly between wars or a new regiment is introduced that didn't exist before. Sometimes the regimental title changes or spellings (Example: Bedforshire to Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire, the spelling of Welsh reverting to Welch, etc.

Some badges changed not at all.

Plastic ones were strictly WWII.

As stated before, some regiments didn't exist as such in WWI but I have see a "genuine World War One parachute Regiment" badge flogged on eBay. Same with Armored Corps, no such animal in WWI.

Your best bet is to try to get ahold of Gaylor's book entitled "Military Badge Collecting" Is is about the best around, although it to has some errors. No "reference" book is infalliable, but his is pretty close.

TerryB

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

Terry,

I understand about some of the design changes and crowns from different periods. What I have noticed but cannot pin down without complete certainty is that WW1 badges were made of thicker metal. The nickel plating was thicker, and the reverse side of the badge metal discoloration from being heat treated is different in color and darker then what you see of badges made in WW2. Would this be an accurate statement ? Or would these guidelines be difficult to date due to the badges being all different depending upon which manufacture had made them.

[TerryB]

Thicker material used to be a dead give-away. The real ones had a nice "heft" to them that the wannabe's didn't have. Unfortunately, the fakers have caught on to that.

Also, the materials used in authentic vice fakes was a give-away. The real ones used gilding metal vice yellow brass. (Gilding metal is a brass alloy with a high content of copper which gives it a reddish hue)

The old Victorian stuff also used yellow brass vice gilding metal, but that is a real minefield best left alone.

Nowdays. I just can't, in many cases, tell a real one from a fake, nor be able to say WWI vice WWII. Providers of the badges had their own criteria and it is impossible to tell one from the other. Wish there was, but there isn't. There is just no "magic" test available.

Badge collecting, that of authentic ones anyway, is about over. Most of the real/good pieces have been squirreled away and the good old days of knowing that one could buy only real ones, sight unseen, has passed thanks to those who are more interested in a quick buck than in perserving history.

If you want to collect badges, you will get some real bargains and you will be bitten. It goes with the game. I can only say "good luck"

TerryB

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

Thicker material used to be a dead give-away. The real ones had a nice "heft" to them that the wannabe's didn't have. Unfortunately, the fakers have caught on to that.

Also, the materials used in authentic vice fakes was a give-away. The real ones used gilding metal vice yellow brass. (Gilding metal is a brass alloy with a high content of copper which gives it a reddish hue)

The old Victorian stuff also used yellow brass vice gilding metal, but that is a real minefield best left alone.

Nowdays. I just can't, in many cases, tell a real one from a fake, nor be able to say WWI vice WWII. Providers of the badges had their own criteria and it is impossible to tell one from the other. Wish there was, but there isn't. There is just no "magic" test available.

Badge collecting, that of authentic ones anyway, is about over. Most of the real/good pieces have been squirreled away and the good old days of knowing that one could buy only real ones, sight unseen, has passed thanks to those who are more interested in a quick buck than in perserving history.

If you want to collect badges, you will get some real bargains and you will be bitten. It goes with the game. I can only say "good luck"

TerryB

Thanks Terry,

Useful information. So what you are saying is that heavier metal badges with the back side in a dark brownish red hugh color which was considered original are now being faked as well ?

What about manufacture markings ? Post stamped "J. R. Gaunt , London" for example. Are markings being faked as well ?

[TerryB]

Everything is being faked....the "better mousetrap"

The "J.R. Gaunt" stamp used to be considered genuine. No more. Remember, they moved to Birmingham in the seventies but you still see badges which are obliously made post-move still stamped "J.R.Gaunt, London"

Even the Gaunt plate which was proof of authenticity had been removed from the badges of lesser value, such as the St John's Ambulance and being refastened to the phoney ones, like the RN Division or the various cyclist units.

This is, of course, an infringement of the Gaunt copywrite, but unfortunately, they have not pursued it in court. I would like to see these weenies sued or jailed.

My best advice is that you should consider a proffered badge as a restrike or a phoney unless the seller can prove it authentic. Take a look at eBay. I would venture to say that about 99% of that stuff is spurious. It can just be too damned expensive if you are not careful.

I have had "trusted" dealers tell me that a badge was authentic, only to find out later that I had been jerked around. How many "Guards Machine Gun Battalion" or "Royal Naval Division" badges are being offered? Oh God, don't forget about the "authentic Tank Corps!"

TerryB

[REGAL UNIFORMA COLECTOR]

Sounds like an area of collecting best left alone.

[TerryB]

Unless you are very, very certain about the badge, or want one to fill a hole somewhere and don't care about it's authenticity, I think you have reached the correct decision.

"Real" badges, the WWI's and so forth, now cost megabucks.

Thirty years ago, it was different, but now.......

TerryB