Turkey A Turkish Transitional Treat -to Tim Tezer

[Ulsterman]

For Tim:

Look on the left-and the right!

[Ulsterman]

ooops-wrong forum-please transfer to Central Powers Ed! Sorry.

[Ed_Haynes]

Actually, I think it is where it belongs?

And NICE!!

[Guest Rick Research]

Is that a yucky painted TWM? Can you get more clarity enlarging it?

[Josef Rietveld]

He is wearing the medal of independence so this pic is post-1922. As i have been told all ottoman empire decorations were abandoned after 1922. Active officers were only allowed to wear the Indenpendence medal, so it is funy that he wears the War Medal and the lyakat aswell.

regards

haynau

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, even though the thread was moved to where it does NOT belong it is still a nice and rare picture.

[Ulsterman]

He is wearing the medal of independence so this pic is post-1922. As i have been told all ottoman empire decorations were abandoned after 1922. Active officers were only allowed to wear the Indenpendence medal, so it is funy that he wears the War Medal and the lyakat aswell.

regards

haynau

EXACTLY the point!

There seems to be some evidence of transitional wear of Ottoman medals up to @1925.

[Tim Tezer]

Very interesting - and a very rare photo indeed! Strictly speaking, he should not have been wearing the Ottoman medals, but the photo is probably very early, right after the institution of the Independence Medal. Also, this may bear evidence of the Liyakat and TWM being awarded during the War for Independence - he might have won them in the 1920's rather than in WW1, but we couldn't be sure.

One thing is clear - that moustache is a winner

Tim

[Guest Rick Research]

My understanding has always been that wartime awards were allowed, but that peacetime/civil ones were banned.

I've just looked in Kn?tel, Kn?tel, & Sieg and they state that this pattern of rectangular rank patches (a Major, he is) came in

circa 1930

and they show a line illustration of a Lieutenant Colonel wearing WW1 awards and the independence medal in exactly this way.

[Tim Tezer]

It would be interesting to see if a similar photo could be found with someone wearing Turkish orders, as well as the medals, as it appears that the abolition of all Ottoman awards after the establishment of the Republic is mostly mythology. Even today, the idea persists that the Independence Medal was the only military award of the Turkish Republic, but there were a handful of military medals that were issued. Also, in 1983 an entirely new set of military decorations was instituted, so if ever there was any truth in the myth, there isn't any more.

Tim

[Guest Rick Research]

On the 75th anniversary Anzac Day, there was a reunion of Ottoman and Allied veterans at Gallipoli, shown on our TV. The Turkish veterans were all kitted out in lamby-wool caps, what appeared to BE immaculate brand new brown Ottoman uniforms, with breeches and riding boots (Turkish VFW???....) and they were wearing their Imtiazs, Liakats, and TWMs.

[Tosun Saral]

Gents, The good looking Holywood-Turkish Gentlemen is a cavalry major. But there is something wrong with that photo:

1- Hair sytle

2- mustasche

3-uniform : He is wearing uniform of WW1.

4- The way of decorations correct.

Between 1900- 1950 the uniforms changed many times. I like to give you some examples for your better understanding.

1- WW1 2nd Lt. Selahattin Gunay who arrested Lawrence

2- 2 Lts from the Army of Mustaf Kemal in 1920

3- My late father Major General Ahmet Hulki Saral as under Lt. on the left in 1924

[Tosun Saral]

more

Maj.Gen. Nihat Anilmis a hero of WW1 and War of Independance in 1932

A colonel M.D. of the year 1933 wearing all his decorations.

[Tosun Saral]

more

A cavalry Lt. in 1922

A picture of cavalry Lt. Col wearing same type of uniform and collar sign.