Austria-Hungary AUSTRIAN-GERMAN RIBBON BAR WW1.

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gentlemen.

I hope I got this in the correct part of the Forum

This set of three bars recently sold on Ebay for 47.46 US Dollars, and am I right in thinking this particular style is unique to Austria?

The ribbons seem only to show half the ribbon each being inserted behind the preceeding one.

I am also trying to i.d. all the awards, are they all Austrian ??

Kevin in Deva

[hunyadi]

Hello -

It was not even worht that much - the whole thing is put together with modern ribbon. I have almost never seen an austrian bar with overlapping ribbons like that. They almost always show the full view fo each ribbon. If you just look at the ribbons they seem very new. Yes - they are all mostly Austrio-Hungarian descent except for the last ribbon - which I can not identify. Eitehr way they not completely fantasy - but they were probably made a week ago...

[Kev in Deva]

Hello -

It was not even worht that much - the whole thing is put together with modern ribbon. I have almost never seen an austrian bar with overlapping ribbons like that. They almost always show the full view fo each ribbon. If you just look at the ribbons they seem very new. Yes - they are all mostly Austrio-Hungarian descent except for the last ribbon - which I can not identify. Eitehr way they not completely fantasy - but they were probably made a week ago...

Hallo hunyadi may I draw your attention to this thread with regards the Austrian style

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=3029&hl=Besser

Where on Post 2 Forum Member Webr55 states:

The ribbons are:

EK2 1870 (with missing 25 yr oakleaves), XXV, KDM 1870 with (only 1!) clasp "Paris", 1897 Cent., Anhalt FriedrichX, Lippe War MeritX, Hessian Bravery, Schaumburg-Lippe War MeritX, Hamburg Hanseaten

- and something that still completely escapes me in last place

RAO and KO moved up to the neck, so must have been a general before 1914. The style of the bar is weird, mostly seen on Austrian bars - but this was not an Austrian. Why he chose this style still remains a mystery.

It was clear that he could only be ID'd through a photo. And here's where Daniel came in: He and I were both going through the ranklists and had several dozens of suspects left.

BUT - however improbable it may seem - Daniel found a photo.

A photo with a ribbon bar.

No, not just some bar - but THIS VERY bar:

So it seems there is some evidence that some members of Austrians military chose to wear this style.

Kevin in Deva

[Guest Rick Research]

I didn't see these, so I can't say whether these were sold as brand new mockups or not, but they look right. If those WERE silk, absolutely perfect for a noble (Marianerkreuz) medical-ish (Red Cross Decoration) career officer. Next to last is a peacetime Bavarian Military Merit Order, probably.

Overlaps are very common, because the singles snapped or clipped on the individual horizontal tunic loops from which fuill sized medals were suspended must have been horrible for snagging and ripping off.

Because the Austrians never sorted out what to do with their ribbons, everything from 40mm full size, to 20mm half size, to German-type 15mm to (by the 1930s) 10mm reductions (so MANY ribboned awards) were all used:

[attachmentid=56504]

Here is an April 1917 portrait photo of the deputy chief of the Austro-Hungarian General Staff, Feldmarschalleutnant Franz Ritter H?fer von Feldsturm (1861-1918) wearing his sewn on overlaps:

[attachmentid=56505]

Aside from the first two ribbons (probably a wartime ?M3K and a peacetime one), hard to tell what these all are. What LOOKS like a solid full width dark ribbon in the middle is actually his Long Service Cross (yellow coming out as dark as black on these old photos) overlapping his 1898 Military Jubilee, as this oil painting (thanks, Glenn! ) clarifies:

[attachmentid=56506]

so, if the three sets on eBay WERE real silk, I'd say they were perfect originals, and worth, as a set--and if identifiable-- almost three times what they sold for. Somebody out there was very, very lucky.

[Kev in Deva]

I didn't see these, so I can't say whether these were sold as brand new mockups or not, but they look right. If those WERE silk, absolutely perfect for a noble (Marianerkreuz) medical-ish (Red Cross Decoration) career officer. Next to last is a peacetime Bavarian Military Merit Order, probably.

so, if the three sets on eBay WERE real silk, I'd say they were perfect originals, and worth, as a set--and if identifiable-- almost three times what they sold for. Somebody out there was very, very lucky.

Hallo Rick,

and many thanks for your invaluable comments, the auction write uop was brief to say the least:

"Here are three ORIGINAL german WWI uniform medal bars~ About 7" long~ Sold as a group~ KILLER AND ORIGNAL~ See my other WWI German Pins, etc- Buyer to pay with money order or paypal and $7.00 for priority mail and insurance~ International bidding is fine, but shipping to be via US EXPRESS mail and costs to be determined~ Payment within 5 days please~ Have a great day wherever you are!"

It can still be seen at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A%3AIT&rd=1

Kevin in Deva.

[hunyadi]

Hi - the point that I was making is that I have never seen a A-H bar with overlapping ribbons like that - the posts show german individuals (#2) not Austrian. The other posts show officers with long - and not overlapping ribbons, miniature albeit. However seeing the filed Marshal I am convinced that there were some ribbon bars that were too long to accomodates - so there are some. My main point is that I have never seen one like that before and the "shine" on the bravery medals is too much like new ribbon being made every day. The quality of the construction also just screams of recently put together. But thats all just my observations and opinions.

Edited October 10, 2006 by hunyadi

[Ulsterman]

I was watching this auction with interest and backed off when Marcus Ravery bid-alas.

The dealer is an antique dealer in northern Vermont, USA, who had some spectacular Austrian medals which obviously were pulled in a private sale after being in the open only one day.

[hunyadi]

I stand completely correctd -