Request for Red Eagle recipient lookup...

[Great Dane]

Hello gentlemen,

Can anybody confirm if Field-Marshal John Denton Pinkstone French received the Prussian Order of the Red Eagle?

And if yes, which class?

In French's biography written by his son it says that French received this order in 1911 during a visit in Mecklenburg where he attended German Army manoeuvres.

Knowing French's feelings towards what he clearly saw as a future enemy, it would not be surprising if he didn't wear it much (which would explain why I never have seen a photo of him wearing it).

Thanks,

/Mike

[Guest Rick Research]

Awards were granted by the recipient's rank, so if he got it, it would have been in a class applicable to his rank at that time.

My understanding of normal British practice would have been to allow the receipt of such an award, but not its wear.

[Ed_Haynes]

Awards were granted by the recipient's rank, so if he got it, it would have been in a class applicable to his rank at that time.

My understanding of normal British practice would have been to allow the receipt of such an award, but not its wear.

These awards can usually be traced pretty easily in the archives. It could be either unrestricted permission, restricted permission (e.g., only in the presence of a "somebody" from the awarding State), or no permission (keep it in a drawer) could be granted. I have, for example, the lists of awards granted when the crown prince attended the 1911 Durbar in Delhi; most of these were unrestricted permissions. All of this, of course, ended abruptly in 1914 when all permissions for the wearing of now-enemy awards were cancelled.

[Great Dane]

Thanks for the answers to both of you. Actually I never considered the possibility of him not having permission to wear it...

I would be really grateful if anyone could confirm that he actually was awarded the order, but maybe lists of foreign recipients are not easily available?

The question arose because I recently purchased the award document for the Danish Order of the Dannebrog (Grand Cross) to French at the DNW auction.

Although I am a firm believer in keeping all letters/documents to a person together, DNW chose to sell them as individual lots and I didn't have the financial means to buy them all (the award document for the Japanese Order of the Rising Sun (Grand Cordon with Paulownia Blossoms) got a hammer price of ?2000! )

A forum member from another forum (I can't remember if he is a member here as well...) is putting together a list of French's awards, and the only reference to the Order of the Red Eagle is from the biography I mentioned.

/Mike

[Ed_Haynes]

I appreciate your attiutude with regard to keeping collections together, but sometimes that cannot be accomplished.

Most records will be in the National Archives (Public Record Office) in Kew. Often (but not always) these would have been published in the London Gazette. While the online LG is notoriously cranky, it has condescended to share these 1911 awards of the Red Eagle:

10 February 1911:

"Whitehall, February 9, 1911.

"The KING has been pleased to give and grant unto William Drory, Esq., Director of the Imperial Continental Gas Association, Frankfort-On-Main, His Majesty's Royal licence and authority to accept and wear the Insignia of the Fourth Class of the Order of the Red Eagle, conferred upon him by His Majesty the German Emperor, King of Prussia, in recognition of valuable services rendered by him."

10 November 1911:

"Whitehall, November 9, 1911.

"The KING has been pleased to give and grant unto Arthur Edward Pearse Weigall, Esq., Chief Inspector of the Service des Antiquites at Cairo, His. Majesty's Royal licence and authority to accept and wear the Insignia of the Fourth Class of the Order of the Red Eagle, conferred upon him by His Majesty the German Emperor, King of Prussia, in recognition of valuable services rendered by him."

28 November 1911:

"Whitehall, November 24, 1911.

"The KING has been pleased to give and grant unto Sir Charles Wright Macara, Baronet, Chairman of the International Committee of the International Federation of Master Cotton Spinners' and Manufacturers' Associations, His Majesty's Royal licence and authority to accept and wear the Insignia of the Fourth Class of the Order of the Red Eagle, conferred upon him by His Majesty the German Emperor, King of Prussia, in recognition of valuable services rendered by him."

And none for 1912.

Obviously, French is not there, In any case, this would be an award in which, after 1914, no British recipient would take any pride.

Edited December 28, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

PS - I have added the 1911 Durbar awards over at http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13793

[Paul L Murphy]

Gentlemen,

The abovementioned certificate to French for the Rising Sun that went for GBP2,000 has found a very good home, I was the winning bidder. This is the certificate for the Grand Cordon of the Rising Sun with Pawlonia Leaves and was hand signed by the Taisho Emperor. It is a phenomenally rare certificate, the fact that it was awarded to French makes it more interesting but irrespective of the recipient it is a very rare item. I was prepared to go much much higher in price to get this so I was rather happy at the final bid.

Cheers,

Paul

[Ed_Haynes]

Gentlemen,

The abovementioned certificate to French for the Rising Sun that went for GBP2,000 has found a very good home, I was the winning bidder. This is the certificate for the Grand Cordon of the Rising Sun with Pawlonia Leaves and was hand signed by the Taisho Emperor. It is a phenomenally rare certificate, the fact that it was awarded to French makes it more interesting but irrespective of the recipient it is a very rare item. I was prepared to go much much higher in price to get this so I was rather happy at the final bid.

Cheers,

Paul

Congratulations, Paul!

[Great Dane]

Sorry Paul, I didn't mean to imply that the price was too high

It was only to illustrate what financial state I should have to buy all French's documents.

I realize that your document it extremely rare and not something you come across every day.

Congratulations with your purchase. I'm pretty happy with mine as well (it just arrived today)

/Mike

[Paul L Murphy]

Hi Mike,

Mine has not yet arrived, probably due to Christmas post delays. In almost 20 years collecting Japanese medals this is the first Pawlonia Flowers certificate I have seen for sale ! Now all I need to do is find the certificate for the Order of the Chrysanthemum, Cultural Decoration, Golden Kite 1st Class ...... ok, now I am dreaming again !

Paul