Questionable Award Documents

[MJMartin]

I wanted to get everyone's opinion on these documents on eBay. This first one is for the 1904-1905 War Service Medal. I am thinking this is a fake just because of its weird design and modern design. Is it a replacement piece maybe?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...p;rd=1&rd=1

This second document appears to be for an Order of the Sacred Treasure 8^th Class from the 1904-1905 War. The odd things about this is that I have never seen a mini-award document for sacred treasure and I don't think I have seen the conflict that the award was given in listed on the document. Usually documents have only one reference to an actually date/event and that is the day that the award was given. I am open to opinions on this document.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...p;rd=1&rd=1

Thanks

[Paul L Murphy]

Both of these documents are genuine. The top document is from a patriotic organisation, not the government. It has been awarded for participation in the Russo Japanese War but is an unofficial award. There are many different organisations from that time which handed out badges and certificates to their members.

The bottom certificate is an offical government award. You do find Sacred Treasure awards like this and normally, irrespecitve of which medal is awarded, you will find reference to the campaign. You also find these certificates without any medal and only an award of money for merit.

To be honest, having read some of your posts on this and other forums I think you worry about fake documents too much ! I have not yet come across any convincing fakes of Japanese award documents, although it is probably only a matter of time before some of the higher end stuff starts to be faked.

[MJMartin]

Wow, they love their documents. I would have never guessed that about the Russo-Jap Document. You are right Paul, there appears to be no real reason to be nervous. My paranoia will be completely checked and I will go on enjoying the hobby. Thanks!

[Ed_Haynes]

I guess this is one of the values of limited linguistic ability among medal dealers and collectors. To most erstwhile fakers, Japanese looks like chicken-scratches so they pass on to easier-to-fake documents with larger markets. The day will probably come when enterprising Japanese crooks fill this vacant niche, but enjoy it until then!