Kriegsmarine Admiral's Flotilla Pennant/Command Flag

[John Burchell]

Gentlemen:

Here is a triangular-shaped rank flag which I believe to be a Commanding Admiral's flotilla pennant. The iron cross is printed on a wool-like material. There is a more substantial cotton or canvas-like material forming the bunting with attachment rope sewn-in at the hoist-end, where double-layered reinforcement panels are also machine-stitched on both sides.

A cloth label sewn to the bunting indicates the maker as being the: "Bonner Fahnenfabrik Bonn / Rheindorferstr. 224".

The approximate measurements are 44 cm. across the top bunting and 74 cm. along the triangular side. The iron cross measures 32.5cm. from the outside edge (at the bunting end) to the outside bottom of the arm; and the middle cross arm 31.5 cm. side-to-side across. The ends of the arms of the cross measure 8 cm., and the black-and-white borders together measure 1 cm.

The singularly interesting feature of this flag/pennant are the nicknames, followed by signatures and rank levels added to the quadrants, presumably by the officer compliment of a U-Boot or other ship, or perhaps even old comrades from officers' academy or the like, as presented to the senior officer on some special occasion, perhaps retirement. Judging from the superb condition of the flag/pennant, it was never actively used.

I would be most grateful for comments as to whether or not this item is of Third Reich vintage, the names being a most likely clue. Any and all comments are most welcome.

Regards,

John

[John Burchell]

...

[John Burchell]

I would really appreciate any feedback which members might be able to provide on this pennant. Thanks, in advance, John.

[John R]

Hi John,

This is not an Admiral's flag but instead a Flotilla Commander's Pennant (Flottillenstander). This flew from the mainmast and was used to identify which boat in the group of boat had embarked the Flotilla Commander. These could be quite small boats of course working their way up in size depending on the flotilla you are talking about. I think this type of flag was in use after the war and maybe to this day.

However, it is clear from the photo that these are the names of the ships of this flotilla and the name of each ship's Commanding Officer. With a little research or maybe help from members here, the ships' names would lead to the flotilla and dates of service.

John

Edited March 3, 2007 by John Robinson

[John R]

OK, a very quick Google revealed that the ships are minensuchboots of the Bundesmarine. I could be wrong and that these were also in the Kriegsmarine, but I do not think so. Examples of post-1945 cap tallies for sister ships attached. Note that this grouping has WWII and post-WWII tallies mixed in the same display--one of them anyway IMO but really tricky with these 1955-1960 Bundesmarine tallies.

John

Edited March 5, 2007 by John Robinson

[John Burchell]

Thank you for your feedback, John, which I appreciate. Just for reference, in my nominal description above I was going by the pictures shown here which I found in Vol.3 of the Angolia/Schlicht book, "Der Kriegsmarine" on pages 304 (Admiral) and 346 (Flotilla).

Regards,

John

Edited March 5, 2007 by John Burchell

[John R]

The Gothic script was not in use long after WWII. I will check my references and get back to you on this so you can date you pennant. These types of tallies are always getting confused with WWII tallies, but they changed them to the block letters in the 50s I think. I will check. John

[Gordon Williamson]

Almost certainly a Bundesmarine pennant.

Bonner Fahnenfabrik is still in existence and still makes flags today.

http://www.bofa.de/

I believe the clue may lie in the manufacturers markings. I believe their modern stuff has the factory name and address (their address changed a couple of times) whereas the older stuff just had Bonner Fahnenfabrik / Bonn a. Rhein up until the late 40s I think.

Not having any NS symbols in the design these pennants were retained in use by the Bundesmarine and are still used today by the renamed Deutsche Marine. I suppose early postwar, there may have been left over stocks of wartime manufactured pennants still in use in the Bundesmarine, but my bet would be this being a postwar made piece.

[John R]

1955-1960 as far as the tallies go. Most of them are fairly rare and come in all kinds of varieties for the same unit. Of course, the ships kept sailing on, so it is still hard to date the pennant. Doubt if any of the ships are still in service so the easy way of just asking the ship when a certain officer was Captain is not possible. Would have to go to National Archives and ask for the history of the ship to precisely date your pennant. John

[John Burchell]

OK, many thanks for your excellent feedback, Gordon and John. Post-war and Bundesmarine it is! I will see if I can find out anything about the ships mentioned and report back if something comes-up. Cheers! John

Update:

Here is some feedback from a Canadian Navy contact of mine on assignment with NATO in the U.S., who consulted with his German Navy colleagues also located there:

Quote

I showed the pictures to some of the German naval officers here in Norfolk. One of them thought that this is the distinguishing pennant of a commander of a mine countermeasures squadron that was based in the Baltic very near the East German border in the 70s or 80s. He served there as a junior officer at that time, and he seemed relatively certain of this.

He said that the squadron commander would almost certainly have also been a commanding officer of a ship, as well as the commander of the squadron. He thinks that the names on the pennant were those of the officers in his ship and probably not of the commanders of the other ships in the squadron--they would have probably been more senior in rank. Leutnant zur See (Lt z S) is the most junior officer rank in the German Navy, and it looks like three of the five signatures on the pennant had this rank. The other two signatures were for Oberleutnant zur See (OLt z S) who just might have been senior enough to command a small ship but were just as likely to be the next senior officers to the ship's captain/squadron commander.

I very much agree with your assessment that this signed pennant was a presentation memento--possibly to the captain/squadron commander as he was posted off the ship.

Unquote

Edited March 6, 2007 by John Burchell

[Guest Rick Research]

If you can get the names zoomed in and LEVEL, so that they can be read (I cannot read any of them except the hopeless "Schulze" as is, distant and at odd wrinkly angles) I may be able to narrow down the date. I have a number of issues of the Marine Offiziere Hilfe e.V. professional association directories, and these officers should be listed.

IF I am reading a couple correctly, then circa 1965--

REHBERG is Joachim, born in 1933, member of the Crew of IX/57. As of 1991 he was a Fregattenkapit?n.

BURCHARD however would appear to be WW2 Oberleutnant zS aD Horst, born 1923 of Crew V/41--

so perhaps this was some sort of ceremonial "tradition" souvenir.

[John Burchell]

Thanks, Rick. I have re-scanned all five names and will post them below.

[John Burchell]

"Perseus"

[John Burchell]

"Herkules"

[John Burchell]

"Pluto"

[John Burchell]

"Neptun"