Interesting ribbon bar w/ Russian St. Stanislaus

[landsknechte]

Stumbled across an interesting ribbon bar at a local surplus store:

1914 EK2

Hessian Bravery Medal

Hindenburg Cross w/ Swords

Plain blue long service ribbon

Russian St. Stanislaus

Double wrap style with black felt backing.

I'll post pictures soon (left my camera at work), but in the mean time, I wanted to bounce this combination off the collective wisdom of the group. My gut feeling is Navy, but I'd love to hear whatever the others in the group have to say.

Thanks,

--Chris

[landsknechte]

I was able to borrow a camera, so...

Edited July 19, 2005 by landsknechte

[Guest Rick Research]

White Russian version from the Civil War in the Baltic for the army-- that's where most oddball ones like this come from.

It COULD be a pre-1914 award too--

only a MEDAL BAR can tell... because the ribbon was used on Zeal Medals to NCOs as well as the Order itself.

[attachmentid=6529]

Either way, a combination.

[landsknechte]

Was the Hessian Bravery Medal restricted to Hessians, or was it awarded across the board?

[Guest Rick Research]

Anybody could get it. Enlisted Hessians in Hessian units would have gotten a Hessian long service award, but Hessian officers got the Prussian one. So this is

a) a native or non-native officer's bar or

b) a non-Hessian NCO's bar or

c) a naval any ranks ("Reichs" long service) bar

[landsknechte]

Anybody could get it. Enlisted Hessians in Hessian units would have gotten a Hessian long service award, but Hessian officers got the Prussian one. So this is

a) a native or non-native officer's bar or

b) a non-Hessian NCO's bar or

c) a naval any ranks ("Reichs" long service) bar

←

I was unaware that scenarios a and b were even possible, and as such had assumed that c was probably about the only viable possibility. Especially with the black backing.

Thanks,

--Chris

[Guest Rick Research]

Ahhhh! MOST of the time backing helps

for active duty military personnel

while conceivably this could be an Imperial Long Service award holder in the time period summer 1934 (Hindenburg Crosses) to pre-Octover 1936 (Wehrmacht long services handed out), chances are this was NOT a Wehrmacht member

so the backing doesn't really help then. Red, black, any of the woven silks... not going to help unless a specific Third Reich color like Luftwaffe gray, Polizei green, Party brown and so on.

Black here is probably "generic," as red would be.

There is no way to interpret ribbon bars without full size awards when the same ribbons could be for very different things.

That COULD be a Hessian Military Medical Cross on the "bravery" ribbon, and it COULD be an R.A.D. long service award.

Ambiguity is what makes positive original wearer IDs spectacular... but rare.

[landsknechte]

Ooookay... Now I'm getting it. I had thought that black was associated with the Navy. Perhaps not as strongly as blue, but still linked.

Thanks,

--Chris

Edited July 20, 2005 by landsknechte

[Wild Card]

?N?knechte -

This is a nice little bar, especially with that St. Stanislaus on the end. I have to ask you about ribbon #2, which is identified as the Hessian Bravery Medal. I don?t know for sure, but I think of that ribbon as being more gray, than white, with the single red side stripe.

Am I seeing it wrong? Maybe it?s the way the ribbons are twisted or wrapped; but in the picture #2 almost looks like the St. Stanislaus ribbon with the colors reversed. Trouble is that so far I can not come up with a realistic alternative, or answer, for which I apologize.

As I said before - a nice little bar.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[landsknechte]

The Hessian decoration being referred to is supposed to be a bright "baby blue", however that ribbon is notorious for fading out to a dingy white. It definately was blue, earlier in it's career. The only way to see it now is to pull back the backing a little bit, and hiding there under the backing is the original unfaded bright blue.

--Chris

Edited July 20, 2005 by landsknechte

[Wild Card]

Hi, again, Landsknechte -

Faded baby blue it is. As a matter of fact, a close look at the reverse of the bar shows a patch of the bright cornflower blue of the long service ribbon; accenting how faded the obverse has become.

Yikes! I do not how the creative spelling of your signature happened; I apologize; and hope that this one comes out correctly.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[landsknechte]

Hi, again, Landsknechte -

Faded baby blue it is. As a matter of fact, a close look at the reverse of the bar shows a patch of the bright cornflower blue of the long service ribbon; accenting how  faded the obverse has become.

Yikes! I do not how the creative spelling of your signature happened; I apologize; and hope that this one comes out correctly.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

←

I couldn't find a good way to photograph it, but simply pulling back the fold in the long service ribbon shows a really dramatic difference in the color.

[Igor Ostapenko]

One more from my collection...

[landsknechte]

Now that I've got a rare moment off work, I'm finally getting a chance to update my collection catalog (i.e. book of notes)... What is the "proper" name for the zeal medal, and what would the name for that, and the St. Stanislaus be in Russian?

Thanks,

--Chris

[Igor Ostapenko]

See please the last post of this topic

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=1369