red coat

[Mossy]

this is a jacket i bought of a fellow collector here in australia. can anyone tell me anything about it?

thanks for any response!

mossy.

Edited July 21, 2005 by Mossy

[Mossy]

the inside.

mossy

[Mossy]

the shoulder and collar label.

mossy.

[Mossy]

and the coll sphynix.

cheers!

mossy.

[Guest Rick Research]

tunic

Can you get us a clear legible scan of the Lieutenant's NAME written on bottom of the label?

THAT'S where everything you want to know will come from, I bet.

If you can't read the ink as it is, try making a XEROX copy of it, and adjusting the tone to dark a bit. That often works wonders on faded spindly handwritten ink.

[Guest paracollector]

Certainly looks like a Lieutenants Dress Tunic of the South Wales Borderers, except the Facings are the wrong color. I could be wrong, but what I have read, the SWB's had green Facings until 1881, then from 1881 to 1905 they had white. In 1905 they returned to green. The yellow facings have me stumped, but I'm sure someone out there will know more.

Here is a link to a photo of a Private in the SWB's in the 1890's. This is a great site with all sorts of cabinet photo's of Victoria's troops.

http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/page3n-1...sBorderers.html

John

[Mossy]

Thanks everyone! ill try and get a scan of the label tonight. the mans name, however, is Lomax. that much i can remember! haha.

ill post the scan tomorrow.

thanks again!

mossy.

[Guest Rick Research]

I find two generations of Lomaxes in the "41st (Welch) Regiment" from Who's Who.

What initial on the name?

What do the buttons say the regiment is? Can't read, and don't know British uniforms myself, am "visiting" here from the research end.

[woodbine]

Hello Mossy,

I have just taken a peek at Colin churchills' book "History of The British Army Infantry Collar Babge" and I think the Jacket in question may be that of "The South Wales Borderes (Fig.659) an embroidered Sphinx, c 1879-1881, then known as The 24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot.

If I find out more info on your jacket I will pass it along.

Cheers,

Woodbine

[woodbine]

Hi Mossy, after a little more research your jacket may in fact be that of The Royal Lincolnshire Regiment (Yellow Facings) Pre 1881. Embroidered versions of the Sphinx collar badges for officers 1880-1881 may have been in use, but according to Colin Churchill, these have yet to be discovered. may be your jacket is the missing link, who knows. Ah, the joys of collecting.

Woodbine

[Mossy]

heres the collar tag as requested. i hope it helps. thanks for all the help people!

mossy.

[Mossy]

and one of the buttons.

mossy

[Mossy]

any more ideas people?

cheers!

mossy

[Guest Rick Research]

The suspense is killing me!!!

Anybody?

[Jim Maclean]

Mossy

The button is that of the Manchester Regiment, 1902 at the very earliest due to the King's Crown.

Duh! Just looking back through the thread there's a damn good clue on the Tailor's label

Jim

Edited August 13, 2005 by Jim Maclean

[Mossy]

thank you jim! ive been pondering over this for ages! english regiments are not my strongpoint.

thank you every one who helped on this!

cheers!

mossy

[Graham Stewart]

Mossy,

It's an 1881 pattern officer's tunic to the Manchester Regiment. It isn't even a regular officers tunic as both the silver buttons and silver lace indicate it actually was worn by an officer in either the pre-1908 2nd Volunteer Battalion, Manchester Regiment or post 1908 6th Bn, Manchester Regiment, which were the only Manchester Battalion's to wear yellow facings.

A look through the Army List's should determine whether or not Lomax served with either of these two battalions.

Graham.

[harribobs]

actually this is an OR badges, the officers would have been all silver

Edited January 21, 2006 by harribobs

[Graham Stewart]

Harribobs,

The collar badge on this tunic is a Manchester Regiment officers pre-1923 wire embroided one and wouldn't have been in metal. Silver metal would probably have been worn by officers with the Scarlet Frock coat and Blue Patrol jacket.

The V.B./T.F. other ranks would have worn the same collar badge, on scarlet Parade Dress tunics but in whitemetal. No collar badges were worn on Service Dress by other ranks pre-WWI.

Post WWI would have seen Regular Battalion badges being adopted by Territorial Battalions, which marked the end of the distinction between the two.

Graham.

[Jim Maclean]

As far as I'm aware the VBs and TF collar badges did not have the Egypt honour below the sphinx

[harribobs]

Gentleman

i should have stated that is a cap badge, not a collar dog!

i can confirm that Lt Lomax was indeed an officer of the 6th Battalion Manchester Regiment

as far as i'm aware the white metal sphinx VB collar dogs certainly didn't have egypt on them, after the Haldane reforms i understood the officers wore standard manchester regiment dogs with a territorials 'T' (seperate badge) on the SDs, not sure about the bullion ones

[Graham Stewart]

Harribobs,

Can you be more precise as to when Lt Lomax served with the 6th Manchesters, as this would give us clear dates to work from, i.e. when was he first commissioned as a 2nd/Lt?

As I'm not a Manchester researcher/collector I can possibly stand corrected on the Sphinx collars with "Egypt" thereon, but as I have stated these differences were done away with post WWI, when Territorial battalions were encouraged to adopt the insignia of their Regular counterparts.

Graham.

[harribobs]

Graham

i'm not correcting you, i really don't know about the bullion badges, but the VB white metal dogs didn't have egypt on them so i can believe the others didn't.

As you say the differences were officially dispensed with, but some battalions still had their own rules, i have seen brunswick stars ( a design coming from the old 96th) worn as cap badges by the 2nd batt

as for Lt Lomax, i checked an army list from 1911 and i think (i haven't got the list with me) he was commissioned 1904

cheers

[Graham Stewart]

Harribobs,

He's not in my October 1914 AL for 6th Manchesters or any for any other unit, so wonder if he emigrated to Australia. Collar badges aside it's a lovely bit of kit and without a doubt the genuine article and wish I had a Northumberland Fusilier one of equal quality in my collection.

Graham.

[harribobs]

Harribobs,

He's not in my October 1914 AL for 6th Manchesters or any for any other unit, so wonder if he emigrated to Australia.

Graham.

if he did i wouldn't mind a small wager that (illness or death aside) he was serving again in an Aussie uniform

nice little project for Mossy i think