EK 1939 Little and Large

[Gordon Williamson]

From the smallest ( barring stickpins) for the buttonhole - and note the "female" style ribbon !, to the largest, the Grosskreuz.

From 14mm and 2 gr, - to 63.5mm and 55gr

[Gordon Williamson]

GKs have some very distinctive features, quite apart from the dipping eye. Note the very "flat" top to the beading ribs.

[Gordon Williamson]

And the beautifully finished outer corners, none of the cross over # effect fround on Junker RKs.

[Biro]

Hello Gordon

Sorry - I'm a little confused by the reference to Juncker RK in the post above.....

You posted this GK in an S&L thread the other day....is this an S&L GK??

Marshall

Edited August 3, 2005 by Biro

[Gordon Williamson]

Hi Marshall,

It was only shown with the S&L RK for size comparison, and the reference to the Junker RK is simply in regard to the fact that whoever cut the tooling which gave the beading the # effect on the Junker RK didn't exactly cover himself with glory in terms of being a master craftsman when you look at what could be achieved.

As for this one, it matches the one in Geissler Page 254. which is believed NOT to be Juncker.

Interestingly, the tiny 800 mark is typical of Steinhauer though.

[Dietrich]

Here's the little one, unfortunately ( ) not a single pin.

Dietrich

Edited August 3, 2005 by Dietrich

[Gordon Williamson]

Just for interest, here is Souvals postwar Grand CRoss copy. Rather well done, complete with acid frosted inner frame.

[Gordon Williamson]

Reverse

[Gordon Williamson]

Souval's GK had a low swastika, with clear "pyramidal" sides, and a different "cut" to the frame corner beading.

[Gordon Williamson]

Souval also has a substantially thicker "eye" with smaller diameter hole.

[Dietrich]

Maybe it's of interest to post the L/12 800 GC I have currently for Study reasons.

[Dietrich]

reverse

[Dietrich]

The lower ring portion and the marking.

[Gordon Williamson]

Very interesting Dietrich. The one you have and mine share many frame characteristics, but the numerals are very different.

Given that Herr Escher was given the task of cutting all the original 1939 Iron Cross dies, it makes sense that S&L must have had the full range made, from EK2 up to GK, although it has been suggested that Juncker alone were given the contract to supply the PK (though I have never seen documented evidence of this).

There are several aspects of the GK I have that suggest "S&L" to me ( the tiny 800 which was an S&L characteristic, the use of Rhodium plating visible on the flat outer frame -also found on early S&L pieces, etc) Also, the existence of the original GK die frame tooling in the Ordensmuseum in L?denscheid which I suspect was donated by S&L.

I have seen a GK in the normal blue covered GK case in the style used for the RK of the KVK (unlike the red case with gold eagle used on the very first awards of the RK and the first GK to HG) which matched this possible "S&L" GK and was allegedly part of the Klessheim hoard.

[Dietrich]

As you surely know ( ) this cross is from Klessheim. Let me try to compare the corners..

Dietrich

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

As you surely know ( ) this cross is from Klessheim. Let me try to compare the corners..

Dietrich

←

Purported to be or we "surely know"???

[Dietrich]

Brian,

from all I know it came from Klessheim. But I was not there picking it on my own, true! So there's always a certain level of "believe it or not". However, it seems to be a genuine Juncker.

Dietrich

[Guest Brian von Etzel]

Thank you Dietrich, I would have to say when it's original and beautiful as that one is, the story just sort of 'fits'. Thank you so much for having the reputation you do to be trusted with this piece and be given the opportunity to share what you could. It's a great benefit to all of us.

The piece of the puzzle missing from my knowledge base is what makes a wartime issue Juncker on original dies different from a postwar Juncker made on original dies as related by the late Mr. Stump.

Edited August 7, 2005 by Brian von Etzel

[Dietrich]

Brian,

yes, that is a puzzle that might be impossible to solve. IF the story if post war restrikes is true and 'they' made them in the same quality as pre-war, how could one ever know?

The first order of business in this case really would be to find out whether Bills' story is true. But how could that be done? We might never find out!

Dietrich

[Dietrich]

Gordon,

here's the comparison. Not the same.

Dietrich