China Chinese Medals for Doolittle Raid Members

[Wilco]

In research to the decorations for Doolittle Raid Members, for the website www.ww2awards.com, we search information on Chinese Medals. The ones we seek for now are:

the Chinese Army, Navy and Air Corps Medal, Class A, 1st Grade.

We could use help on the chinese names (in western alphabet), photos and class/grades clearification.

Besides that we could use a good overvieuw of all Chinese decorations, World War Two related of all periods, to enter inour database. Please help us.

[Hugh]

I may be able to help a little, but it will take some time to take and post the pictures and list the names. I assume you already have access to the ROC MND website. Is that correct?

Just to be completely clear, are you looking for data on one specific medal or the full range of Chinese ODM from that period?

I have a chart showing ribbons of the current MND and police ODM. All text is in Chinese. I don't have equipment to scan it myself, and I suspect it would be of limited value

There is also a book, "The Photograph Collection of Armed Forces Historical Items, published by the Armed Forces Museum recently. It is a broad-spectrum historical reference, but does have some coverage of ODM and certificates awarded to ROC flag officers. No coverage of Doolittle raids.

Once I understand better what you need, I'll be glad to try to help.

[Wilco]

THanks in advance.

Our website covers two sections. On one hand we have a database of persons that received decorations in or related to the Second World War (www.ww2awards.com ) . One of our members is working on all 70 or so attendents to the Doolittle Raid. Here he found out that some have received the mentioned Chinese Army, Navy and Air Corps Medal, Class A, First Grade. All medals that are placed with the persons are brought in a database that covers the other part of our website, a database of all medals, orders and other decorations which have all or some relation to the Second World War (same website). ALready 63 countries have one or more decorations entered, one of the next countries to cover is CHina. Problem is that on the internet and in books there is little known. Thats why I asked for help here. I do not have entry to the ROC MND website yet, how can that be of any help to us in relation to World War Two?

Me I am at this moment working on the decoration part. I am trying to find out which decorations have relation to WW2 or were given out in WW2. We try to place the original name and a DUtch and English translation. However we do use western characters, so no chinese characters. Also I need large dpi images (300 dpi the least) for placement with the entry's, together with a ribbonbar image.

Any help is welcome for we try to be as complete as possible.

Edited May 22, 2007 by Wilco

[Hugh]

OK, I have it now. This medal is shown in James W. Peterson's "Chinese Nationalist Medals and Awards (p. 22) as well as on the ROC MND Website. It was previously also referred to as the Land, Sea and Air Forces Merit Medal (Peterson). It is awarded in (at least) 4 levels, named by Peterson as follows:

Senior Grade, 1st Class (gold) (MND currently calls this A-1st Class)

Senior Grade, 2nd Class (silver) (MND - A- 2nd Class)

Junior Grade, 1st Class (gold) (MND - B - 1st Class)

Junior Grade, 2nd Class (silver) (MND - B- 2nd Class)

It is shown at the head of the list of General (Tri-Service) medals, behind orders, but ahead of individual Army, Navy and AF medals, so I infer that as the official precedence.

The badges are generally similar, but ribbons of each are quite different. See Illustration at the MND Website - http://www.mnd.gov.tw/Publish.aspx?cnid=474 (Unfortunately mostly in Chinese, but titles are in English. Sorry, I couldn't find the exact page. I've been getting error messages as I try to navigate around the site.) An older page which previously worked is http://www.mnd.gov.tw/division/mil/join/pe...index_53_54.htm. This is the exact page, but I get "404 - Not Found". I have a printed copy of the older page.

I have a couple of the medals and can take them out of the case and photograph them if necessary.

Ed Haynes may also have ideas on where to get photos. It's a handsome medal, basically a five-pointed star, richly enameled.

[Hugh]

Whoops! Forgot to add - MND now refers to the medal as "Medal of the Armed Forces", followed by e.g., A-1st Class. Ribbons are basically combinations of red/white/blue. Let me know if you can access the pictures.

[Wilco]

Whoops! Forgot to add - MND now refers to the medal as "Medal of the Armed Forces", followed by e.g., A-1st Class. Ribbons are basically combinations of red/white/blue. Let me know if you can access the pictures.

Great Hugh, thanks for all so far this is a good start.

[Hugh]

Here are a couple of quick snapshots of them in the case. The one on the left (red star) is A- 1st Class. On the left (Red, white, blue star) is B-1st Class. I'm struggling to figure out the upload software; it won't let me upload anything more than 65K, which is not very useful for you. Any hints? If all else fails send me your e-mail, and I'll send it that way. hbtulloch@yahoo.com

[Hugh]

I've forwarded the photographs separately, since I'm not yet allowed to post them on the site. I hope they'll be helpful.

I finally found the correct page on the MND Website (not that it will help much), but it also has good pictures. It's http://www.mnd.gov.tw/Publish.aspx?cnid=476&p=636

Ed Haynes told me about the Google translation service at http://www.google.com/language_tools, but frankly, it wasn't much help. I've reprinted it below for your amusement. Essentially I gather a few facts from it:

The award was established in the 18th year of the Republic of China (1911 + 18 = 1929). "A" level was presented to "colonel-level" officers (possibly including Lt Col?), and "B" class to "lieutenant-level" officers. Broadly interpreted in a US Army context, this might mean that "A" was for field-grade officers (Col - Major) and "B" was for company-grade officers, but that's only my inference from 30+ years of dealing with the Chinese on both sides of the Taiwan Straits. It's apparently not a combat award, and may be presented to civilians and foreigners.

Hope this rounds out the requirement. Are you also still looking for an overall survey of Nationalist medals? The top level of the website will lead you through them, but it's a painful process, what with the Chinese language. I don't know of a good English (or Dutch) resource. Perhaps Ed can help.

Quote from the Google translation:

Army, Navy, Air Force Medal for the flower center on behalf of the state, the national flower Central to 10,000 characters maps, said the passage of time, said for the five-pointed star out of a bright and beautiful lined wreath increase, won the symbol of this chapter, a national brightly, Amid the idea was intended.

　　此章於中華民國十八年八月十五日頒行，為陸海空軍通用最高獎章，分甲乙兩種，每種又分一、二兩等，為襟綬，有表。This chapter in the 18 years of the Republic of China promulgated on August 15, Army, Navy, Air Force General highest medals, consists of two, Also at each one, on February 2, the nation's married to a table.

　　此章頒給陸海空軍軍人於戰時或平時著有功績，或學術技能特有專長者，甲種頒給校級以上軍官，乙種頒給尉級以下之官兵，初次頒給二等 ，再次頒給一等，並依需要以星加綴。This chapter deals with Army, Navy, Air Force soldiers in wartime or peacetime to have merit, or academic skills unique expertise, A species of colonel-level officers at and above the award, presented to B below lieutenant-level officers and the initial second-class award, presented to wait again, according to the need of star superintendent. 又非軍人或外籍人員，盡力於軍事著有勞績者，或捐助軍用器具物品，及其發明或改良，有益於軍用者，Also non-military or expatriate, in the military to make every effort has merit, or donors military equipment items, and their inventions or improvements benefit the military,

亦可頒給此章。This chapter also presented.

　　此章於著軍禮服時，以襟綬佩於勳章之左， 居於各種獎章之右。This chapter in a military dress, married to medal in the nation's service also recruited for analysis, are in various Migratory Medal. 著軍常服時，得佩帶獎表。Supplements to the military, in the table wearing Award.

Army, Navy, Air Force Medal for the flower center on behalf of the state, the national flower Central to 10,000 characters maps, said the passage of time, said for the five-pointed star out of a bright and beautiful lined wreath increase, won the symbol of this chapter, a national brightly, Amid the idea was intended.

　　此章於中華民國十八年八月十五日頒行，為陸海空軍通用最高獎章，分甲乙兩種，每種又分一、二兩等，為襟綬，有表。This chapter in the 18 years of the Republic of China promulgated on August 15, Army, Navy, Air Force General highest medals, consists of two, Also at each one, on February 2, the nation's married to a table.

　　此章頒給陸海空軍軍人於戰時或平時著有功績，或學術技能特有專長者，甲種頒給校級以上軍官，乙種頒給尉級以下之官兵，初次頒給二等 ，再次頒給一等，並依需要以星加綴。This chapter deals with Army, Navy, Air Force soldiers in wartime or peacetime to have merit, or academic skills unique expertise, A species of colonel-level officers at and above the award, presented to B below lieutenant-level officers and the initial second-class award, presented to wait again, according to the need of star superintendent. 又非軍人或外籍人員，盡力於軍事著有勞績者，或捐助軍用器具物品，及其發明或改良，有益於軍用者，Also non-military or expatriate, in the military to make every effort has merit, or donors military equipment items, and their inventions or improvements benefit the military,

亦可頒給此章。This chapter also presented.

　　此章於著軍禮服時，以襟綬佩於勳章之左， 居於各種獎章之右。This chapter in a military dress, married to medal in the nation's service also recruited for analysis, are in various Migratory Medal. 著軍常服時，得佩帶獎表。Supplements to the military, in the table wearing Award.

End of Google translation. I particularly like the Migratory Medal reference. Clearly still a Beta capability, but fun.

[Wilco]

Thanks so far, it surely helps something.

I am still a bit confused on wht kind of decoratio this one was. It was not a military bravery medal, but could it be stated as a bravery medal or just a commemorative medal. At this moment I have stated it as a bravery medal for it is said to be one of the highest decorations.

I could use help in relation to all Nationalist Chinese decorations that were awarded during of in relation to the Second World War.

Edited May 25, 2007 by Wilco

[Hugh]

First, I don't mean to imply that I'm any sort of expert on ChiNat medals, but I do have access to a few sources, and will do my best. I'll certainly try not to lead you astray.

This is definitely not a commemorative medal, and, based on the award criteria in the website, it can be awarded for a wide range of reasons, possibly including bravery. It does rank relatively high in the hierarchy; it is at the head of the list of general medals.

I should explain further. (The following is based on my knowledge of current ChiNat awards, but I think it's a reasonably safe bet that the overall pattern hasn't varied much. Chinese ODM are currently divided into the following categories

1) Orders

2) General Awards (Tri-Service)

3) Army Awards

4) Navy Awards

5) AF Awards

6) Excellence Awards (Mostly qualifications such as marksmanship, riding, flying, boating, study)

7) Achievement Marks

8) Commemorative Medals (This includes long service awards as well as specific campaign medals, service at MND and service HQ, wounds, military police, census, various academies / staff colleges, political warfare, national police)

The MND Website does not appear to have spearated them clearly into these categories. You'll also see a wide variety of translations for the names of the awards. Chinese to English translation seems to be a major challenge. (Just look at the restaurant menus.) I've use the English names from the MND website, and have done my best to match them with the Chinese names. I can also provide pictures of some of these if needed.

They have a system which is set up as follows. I'm not certain that this is the order of precedence, but it is how they are listed on the site. I don't guarantee that the list is complete.

Orders - this includes the following, often awarded in 9 classes

Order of National Glory with Cordon (Kuo Kuon - One class?)

Order of Blue Sky and White Sun (Chin Tien Bai Ze - One class?)

Order of Precious Tripod (Yi Deng Bao Ding)

Order of Loyalty and Valour (Jun Yuon - One class?)

Order of Resplendent Banner (Yi Deng Yun Huei, often called Cloud and Banner, widely awarded in WWII, including foreigners )

Order of Loyalty and Diligence (Jun Chien - one class)

Order of Grand Community (Ta Tung - one class)

Order of the Cosmic Diagram (Ho T'u - one class, AF)

Order of the Book of Nature (Luo Szu - - one class, Peterson calls it Ancient Symbols, AF)

Order of Sublime Commencement (Chi'en Yuan - one class, AF)

Order of Renaissance and Honour (Fu Shin - three classes)

Order of Victory of Resistance against Agression (Sen-Li Shuen - one class)

Order in Commemoration of the Tenth Anniversary of the Oath-Taking of the National Revolutionary Army

Honour Sabre of the Awakened Lion, (3 classes)

General Awards

Medal of the Armed Forces (Lu Hai Kuong Jia - A & B levels, 2 classes each) This is the one you've been looking for.

Medal of Brilliant Light (Kuon Hua - A & B levels, 2 classes each, Peterson calls it Illustrious Service or Glorify China)

Medal of the Victorious Garrison (Ken Cheng - A & B levels, 2 classes each)

Medal of Loyalty and Integrity (Jun Jen?)

Medal of the Spirit of Chu (A & B levels, 2 classes each)

Medal of Victory of Resistance against Agression (Attached to the Order of the same name? Planchet (medal) is similar, ribbon is different)

Medal of Army Brilliance (A & B levels)

Medal of Outstanding Service (A & B levels)

Medal of Bravery (A & B levels, Peterson calls it Army Tiger Merit Medal)

Medal of Outstanding Staff (A & B levels, Peterson calls it Army Golden Bowl Merit Medal)

Medal of Army Achievement (A & B levels)

Medal of Excellent Efficiency

Medal of Naval Brilliance (Hai Kuon)

Medal of Naval Achievement (Hai Kun)

Medal of Naval Merit (Hai Shuen)

Medal of Naval Distinguished Service (Hai Chi)

Medal of Naval Disposition (Hai Fong)

Medal of Marine Corps (Lu Jen)

AF series

Medal of (XX) Star (From 1 up to 10 stars)

Medal of Rising Roc (Pon Chu)

Medal of Flying Dragon (Yun Lung)

Medal of Flying Tiger (Fei Hu - I don't believe there is a direct connection to the American Volunteer Group (AVG), also know as Flying Tigers)

Medal of Winged Leopard (Shon Bao)

Medal of Rapacious Condor (Shun She)

Medal of Vermilion Bow (Dan Kun)

Medal of Awe Inspiring (Yi-Deng Shuen Wei, 3 levels, 2 classes each)

Medal of Distinguished Service (Mao Chi, 8 classes?)

Medal of Exemplary (Kei Mo, 8 classes?)

Of course, there are also a number of other Orders which are now obsolete, but which were in effect during WW II. I've taken this data from Werlich's book. Among them (specific to the military)

Order of Sun Yat Sen (One class - Previously the highest decoration for civil or military merit)

Order of the Striped Tiger (9 classes - military merit in peace or war)

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks for this. The thread has gone far beyond the intent of the original post and some really valuable information on Chinese Republican/Taiwanese awards has been presented. Thanks!

Chinese ODM are a mess (in any era), and a really good book in English is long overdue.

Over at the OMSA database we have some good images that might (or might not) matchj up with Hugh's useful list. See:

http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=544

We still have a long, long way to go, though!

[Wilco]

Thanks a lot Hugh, one question, were al these already in effect when WW2 was going on or were they awarded in relation for WW2?

[Hugh]

Sorry, don't know. It may be in the individual listings on the MND Website, but I haven't plowed through them all. I know that many of them were. If I get some energy, I may have a look to see if I can decipher.

[Wilco]

Sorry, don't know. It may be in the individual listings on the MND Website, but I haven't plowed through them all. I know that many of them were. If I get some energy, I may have a look to see if I can decipher.

Okay, thanks so far, when I stumble upon datings, I shall also relate to is here.

[Hugh]

I'll be happy to try to help on specific questions.

[Wilco]

When I work further on this, I'll sure be back with some questions

[Hugh]

I'll look forward to hearing from you. Hope I have the answers!

[No one]

Dear Gentlemen,

 

Here is the medal, the one on the left:

 

 

Yours sincerely,

No one