Two German Medal Bars

[uknews]

Hello Gentlemen, like to show you two mounted groups and ask what you think, as they're not my area of speciality. Thank you, Mark.

[uknews]

Second group.....

[uknews]

Thanks for all your help. Not too welcoming to newbies are you? Back on topic, i'm not concerned about the originality of the medals themselves, i just would like some comment on the placement of medals in these 2 groups. Thanks, Mark.

[Guest Rick Research]

The colors are rather odd as scanned on the first one, and both are rather small to say. (Epson scanners are the best. )

But the second bar is unusual for a tab-back-- quite long for one of those-- possibly a record holder.

The Schaumburg-Lippe Cross for Loyal Service (3rd place) is quite nice. The combination of a Prussian XV Yerars Service Cross and Third Reich 40 Years Civil Service Cross (last two) indicates this was a former career NCO or PO, out of the military before WW1 but recalled as a combatant. He would have been an Offizierstellvertreter or FEldwebelleutnant, probably, and been disscharged as a Leutnant der Landwehr aD in 18919/20. By the timne he got his KVK2 (2nd place) he'd have been past 60, and still at whatever his unofromed civil service job was. Railways?

Simultaneous typing:

"Thanks for all your help. Not too welcoming to newbies are you?"

Well, sarcasm is always a good way to introduce yourself.

Incredibly enough, one post out of hundreds does sometimes get missed.

[uknews]

The colors are rather odd as scanned on the first one, and both are rather small to say. (Epson scanners are the best. )

But the second bar is unusual for a tab-back-- quite long for one of those-- possibly a record holder.

The Schaumburg-Lippe Cross for Loyal Service (3rd place) is quite nice. The combination of a Prussian XV Yerars Service Cross and Third Reich 40 Years Civil Service Cross (last two) indicates this was a foermer career NCO or PO, out of the military before WW1 but recalled as a combatant. He would have been an Offizierstellvertreter or FEldwebelleutnant, probably, and been disscharged as a Leutnant der Landwehr aD in 18919/20. By the timne he got his KVK2 (2nd place) he'd have been past 60, and still at whatever his unofromed civil service job was. Railways?

Hello Rick, your reply is much appreciated, and i understand 75% of what you are saying, but i am new to this aspect of collecting, could you expand on some of the jargon, ie, ''tab back'', ''record holder'', etc? Thanks, Mark.

Edited May 30, 2007 by uknews

[uknews]

Hello Rick, your reply is much appreciated, and i understand 75% of what you are saying, but i am new to this aspect of collecting, could you expand on some of the jargon, ie, ''tab back'', ''record holder'', etc? Thanks, Mark.

Sarcasm etc, etc, Sorry, frustration got the better of me!!

Mark.

Edited May 30, 2007 by uknews

[David S]

Hello Rick, your reply is much appreciated, and i understand 75% of what you are saying, but i am new to this aspect of collecting, could you expand on some of the jargon, ie, ''tab back'', ''record holder'', etc? Thanks, Mark

Welcome to Imperial Mania . . . er collecting, and a new language !

The metallic backing in the long bar is called a TAB BACK (you can see the tabs for attachment), not usually seen on a bar of more than four. This one being longer having 6. It would have been a weight issue on a uniform. Saggy bars especially on a 60+ year old.

Edited May 30, 2007 by David S

[Paul C]

Hi Mark, Welcome to the forum. The bars look nice and the order looks correct. Usually wartime awards go before the Hindenburg Cross, so looks good. The forum is a great place to share information and show items in our collections. Sometime it is a little slow around here so getting and answer to a question can take a bit of time, but the answers do come. I know that I need to have a little more patients when I ask questions.

[Guest Rick Research]

Tab back indeed refers to this system where each individual award was carefully mounted on a single mounting which was then attached to the slotted plate backing by tabs. It gives each award a nice wide spread so the overlapping doesn't get cramped. It must also have been quite fiddly to DO, to get the awards all lined up properly, rather than the normal method of hand-sewing each award down starting with the last one and finishing with the first one.

The style originally came in during the First World War, but those backings are always painted Field Gray finish. Shiny nickled ones started in the 1920s.

I forgot, I have a SEVEN tab back to the 1920s Commodore of the Hamburg-America Line:

But they aren't normally seen for more than 5 awards. Had to be a fairly Big 'Un to wear that width, between armpit and coat buttons.

THere are many different styles. Your upper one is standard Prussian "bow bottom" as used exclusively by officers before 1914 and by lower ranks after that who could afford the extra mounting expense.

I wasn't too sure about that top bar because a couple of years back there were some superb LOOKING (at least in eBay scans) medal bars, very well made, but with the fake awards CAST and very accurately (again, at least in scans) painted. The colors are "off" enough that I couldn't be sure from the scans you've posted. The bigger and clearer the better.

THAT fellow would have been a Prussian NCO-- despite the Hessian Bravery Medal in 2nd place (can't tell if it is a real silver early war one or a late war silvered alloy from the scan) he's got a Prussian XII Years military Long Service Medal before his 25 Years Third Reich Civil Service. So he'd have been discharged as a Sergeant (same rank title in German as in English, then) or a Vizefeldwebel. Civil service counted the military service all over again. That's how I know the second bar wearer left the military and came back again for the war-- with continuous service and war years counted double, to have had a civil service 40, he'd have gotten a military XXV if he hadn't left before the war.

I am a BIG fan of civilian WW2 War Merit Cross medal bars like the second one. They had so little opportunity TO wear fancy dress that mounted ones are few and far between.

You'll get used to our lingo. Particularly maddening (at first) is our shorthand of refering to German awards by the abbreviations used in their Rank Lists.

Sooooo much easier to say "Nice SLK" Than "Nice Schaumburg-Lippe Cross for Loyal Service In War On Combatant Ribbon." Lazy, bad typists, we are.

[uknews]

Thank you for all your help, it has been extremely enlightening. It is a real pleasure to hear you deduce the likely background, career and rank of the recipitant using the medal bar as the only pointer. Cheers, Mark.

[Kev in Deva]

Thanks for all your help. Not too welcoming to newbies are you? Back on topic, i'm not concerned about the originality of the medals themselves, i just would like some comment on the placement of medals in these 2 groups. Thanks, Mark.

Hallo uknews aka mark

welcome to the G.M.I.C., sorry we were unable to roll out the red carpet & brass band, for your arrival,

but it was at the cleaners, and the brass was being polished

Now and again it occasionaly happens that there is a slow response to questions, the reasons vary,

but patience has to become an acquired trait of the militaria collector.

No rushing in to buy that Wonder bra opps bar, careful research, must be carried out and sometimes the chaps in the know, just dont happen to have their reference books beside them at work, or while on the road.

You will find that many of the members here are goldmines of information, feel free to browse through the sections and have a good time while here.

Members are encouraged to drop into the Lounge section now and again for a bit od chit-chat and there is a place to post some info about yourself if you are of a mind to do so,

Kevin in Deva, Lounge Host

[uknews]

Hallo uknews aka mark

welcome to the G.M.I.C., sorry we were unable to roll out the red carpet & brass band, for your arrival,

but it was at the cleaners, and the brass was being polished

Now and again it occasionaly happens that there is a slow response to questions, the reasons vary,

but patience has to become an acquired trait of the militaria collector.

No rushing in to buy that Wonder bra opps bar, careful research, must be carried out and sometimes the chaps in the know, just dont happen to have their reference books beside them at work, or while on the road.

You will find that many of the members here are goldmines of information, feel free to browse through the sections and have a good time while here.

Members are encouraged to drop into the Lounge section now and again for a bit od chit-chat and there is a place to post some info about yourself if you are of a mind to do so,

Kevin in Deva, Lounge Host

Thank you Kevin, i feel such a fool after my earlier impatient post!!! The quality of help i have received already is second to none, and i am very grateful. I'll be sure to check out the lounge too. Cheers, Mark.