Heer Azad Hindoustan Ribbonbar

[Christian J]

Sold some days ago for 78Euro

The seller got some dodgy items from time to time, but what are the opininons on this one.

Edited June 27, 2007 by RaZpuTiN

[peter monahan]

RaZ

I know nothing about WWII german stuff but I seem to recall a fairly lengthy discussion of the "Azad Hind" ["Free India"] troops not too long ago on some part of this site.

Off the top of my head, the Azad Hind were recruited among Indian Army POWs captured (mostly) in North Africa. I believe they only ever amounted to a couple hundred men and were, after some false starts, eventually taken into the SS and organized as an anti-aircraft battery which may or may not have seen service late in the war (in Germany?).

Don't know if that rules in or out any of the ribbons on the bar but hope it's some help. Ask Ed Haynes for more info.,; he's the Indian Army guru around here!

Peter

[peter monahan]

RAz

Punch "Azad Hind" into the search engine here and you'll get the other site. Some few photos of varying degrees of plausibility/accuracy but none seem to show any Indian volunteer wearing any ribbons at all!

P

[Christian J]

RaZ

I know nothing about WWII german stuff but I seem to recall a fairly lengthy discussion of the "Azad Hind" ["Free India"] troops not too long ago on some part of this site.

Off the top of my head, the Azad Hind were recruited among Indian Army POWs captured (mostly) in North Africa. I believe they only ever amounted to a couple hundred men and were, after some false starts, eventually taken into the SS and organized as an anti-aircraft battery which may or may not have seen service late in the war (in Germany?).

Don't know if that rules in or out any of the ribbons on the bar but hope it's some help. Ask Ed Haynes for more info.,; he's the Indian Army guru around here!

Peter

Here is a site by a member this community i believe. http://users.skynet.be/hendrik/eng/39india.html

It give quite an good overview on awards given to members of the Indian Legion and Indian National Army. All minted in Vienna by Rudolf Souval.

And thank you Mr. Monahan i'll forward this thread to Mr. Haynes.

[Ed_Haynes]

Having just been going through some very interesting information on these awards in the National Archives (of India), . . . .

The ribbon bar, if real, would have been awarded to a German serving with the Azad Hind Fauj (Free Indian Army). While I know very little about German ribbon bars -- and was hoping the experts would chime in -- this one seems to my inexpert eyes to be a very bad ribbon bar fantasy.

As an aside, I might mention that there is a full chapter on these PGAH awards, with sample citations, in a too-long-forthcoming book which was just kicked again into motion yesterday.

[Guest Rick Research]

Were Germans even eligible for these awards, or only the "volunteers?" If the latter, no former Indian Army member could have had a 1939 Westwall medal.

The Azad Hind awards never appeared on any of the GERMAN precedence regulations, as a foreign award. If a German could receive one (two ????) I'd have expected them to come last, AFTER the German awards. Of course, these could have incorrectly been rated as if they were the same as the German awards for the "Ostv?lker."

If that were mine, I'd blacklight it to see if the ribbons are modern, and even if old stock, would be very dubious about it. Statistical odds at play here would be like being hit by lightning while cashing in a winning lottery ticket for it to be real.

[Ed_Haynes]

No, Germans serving with the AHF received these awards and other advisers to the PGAH could get them too (like the designer of the awards, a guy named Klietmann). Mainly they were awarded to Indians serving with the AHF (or, in Southeast Asia, the INA). But few Indians received actual medals during the war. Among Third Reich collectors, these are often viewed as German awards, to Germans, and that of course misses the point and magles the history.

Edited June 29, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

The other thread, by the way, is:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2336

For those signed up over there, there is a longer discussion at

http://sagongs.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=181

There was a set of the later Souval restrikes just sold by Morton & Eden in the final part of their ANS sale. Went at a ridiculously high price for restrikes.