Dr. Fritz von Engelberg

[Dete]

Hello,

is it possible to find out something about this man by having only his name. i was able to get his awards and now would be interested in finding out about where he served and what awards he recieved, maybe i don t get them all.

thx in advance

Dete

[Guest Rick Research]

Welllllllllll

what HAVE you got?

1914?

1870?

... ???????

In order to know WHERE to look, it would help to know WHEN to look for.

So list EVERYTHING you have or know.

Otherwise, while I am sitting here looking at the 1908/09 Orders Almanac entry for Mannheim's prison director (born in 1859)... for all I know you mean some OTHER Dr. Friedrich von Engelberg. ...........................................................

[Dete]

Hi,

sorry, he is born 1885, fought in ww1, also was in service during ww2 and even get the Bundesverdienstkreut in the early 50th. I am most interested in what regiments he served during ww1 and any evidence about his awards at this time.

i ll attache a picture of all the award i bought and i think they belong to him.

Dr. Friedrich von Engelberg was his Father.

regards

Detlev

Edited July 17, 2007 by Dete

[Naxos]

WOW!

[Guest Rick Research]

Ah, THAT one.

Born more about 1894/95, I think--

Friedrich von Engleberg was a regular officer in Baden Dragoner Regiment 20:

Leutnant ernannt 19.9.14 and vorpatentiert 19.2.13

Oberleutnant 20.6.18 X and aD in that rank: below from the 1.1.1919 Dienstaltersliste--

His BZ3bX was awarded 27.4.15 as Leutnant in Dragoner Rgt 20. Scan for that next reply since it is too big to place here.

His WVK4X was awarded 30.10.17 with defective entry only as "Leutnant u Adjutant" and no first name.

You should contact Daniel Krause here-- he is just finishing a re-write of Erhard Roth's Waldeck 1914-18 rolls for a new edition through Michael Autengruber.

But that 1917 rank/date confirms that it was FRIEDRICH and not his older (?) brother ALexander in the same regiment, since Alexander was already an Oberleutnant by then in 1917.

The reason for the odd Waldeck award is that Max Prinz von Waldeck und Pyrmont was a real working officer in Drag Rgt 20: leutnant 30.7.14.

[Guest Rick Research]

As insanely, stupidly HORRIBLE as this freakishly wasteful Z?hringen Lion Roll is for 1915, it is 300 times worse by the last 900 entries in 1918 that Erhard Roth gave up on, when the names are as small as these dates-- engraved on the head of pins as here:

The really thing is, these roll pages are HUGE. If they had just written the class and award date on each line the way they listed Military Karl Friedrich Merit Order and Merit Medal awards next to each name, it would not require electron microscopes to decipher. No photocopier yet invented can make enough detail to "read" the late war entries. Instead, what we have here are hectares of useless wasted blank spaces and entries that are like grains of dust.

The 1914 1918 Ehrenrangliste refers to him as Friedrich. I can't find Alexander in the Dienstalterslisten of 1917, 1918, or 1919 though the Ehrenrangliste refers to him as Oberleutnant aD also.

I did not find Fritz/Friedrich in the 1935 "Wer Ist's?" or "5000 K?pfe" or SS DALs. Maybe finding out what he received his Doctorate in will explain his WW2 civil KVKs and the two Anschluss medals. Absence of a Treudienstkreuz is puzzling since that suggests he was NOT a career civil servant.

You should be able to get his Auszug aus der Kriegsrangliste and other personnel papers from the Baden Military Archive. One of our members who has contacted them recently should be able to help with that.

[Guest Rick Research]

Uh ooooh. The late Erhard Roth screwed up. I have been relying on his printed Waldeck WW1 Rolls and hadn't actually LOOKED at the actual rolls, which I have. Eitze will be glad anyway--

here is von Engelberg's WV4X roll page, showing ACTUAL award date was 21 October 1917 AND listing his unit, omitted by Roth, as Adjutant of Baden's Leib Dragoner Regiment 20--- so apparently he had been in that unit all along:

Closeup isn't much better. If anyone ever wondered why researchers are ... odd... it's from spending every waking moment reading inviosible scribbles like this

scans much larger than original pages.

But identification of recipient is confirmed!

(BTW, PoHlmann just above him is spelled wrong here--confirmed from the SMK Rolls--and God alone knows what X Scribble Regiment 15 is for IX Reserve Corps Orderly Officer Rittmeister dR Rautenstrauch. SOME microscopic scratches even I cannot read! )

[Dete]

Hi Rick,

thx very much for this really impressing research. It s much better to have a backgroung and history behind the awards.

It must have been an interessing family. The father Friedrich was also high decorated and was what i know involved in the asset management of the swedish queen.

regards

Detlev

Edited July 18, 2007 by Dete