Help wanted part 2

[seeheld]

It is possible to find out the name???

According to his medals, he was a fire figther.

Thank you

[seeheld]

Backside

[Guest Rick Research]

Unfortunately I do not have the rolls for any Schaumburg awards EXCEPT grades of the Ehrenkreuz.

From the recipients of BOTH classes of the Verdienstkreuz, the only one I can find with the Merit Medal with Feuerwehr Clasp has just those three listed in the Orders Almanach.

-------->So there could be others!!!

But here is the only one I can NAME--

Wilhelm Heine

GVK 10.10.1909 as Hofkammerkassen Sekret?r

SVK 10.10.99 as Kammerkasse Sekret?r

He provided no details to the Orders Almanac other than the three mentioned awards, and that he lived in B?ckeburg.

[Guest Rick Research]

Note the Model 1902-18 Silver Merit Cross of the Saxe-Weimar Order of the White Falcon in 4th place is INCORRECTLY on the ribbon of the Saxe-Weimar Kriegervereinkreuz. I think the Schaumburg tailor just figured no one would notice the extra green stripe on the outside, because the Cross on the bar fits the mounting, and has NOT been replaced.

Now, the Model 1902 changed from this ribbon to the plain red of all the other classes of the Order in 1909, but did the tailor KNOW that?

Given Saxe-Weimar's bizarrely divided rolls, IF an award to a Schaumburger would have been lumped in among the "Prussians," Heine did not receive this 1912+. There are so few I happen to have 1912 on for "Prussians" of the SVK on a single page!

I am sure given the numbers that there were no more than several pages of this class awarded to non-natives 1902-12, so it might be worthwhile writing to the State Archive for copies to check against the known Schaumburg crosses.

[Guest Rick Research]

Uhhh...

hello?

Gee, I was pretty impressed at coming up with the name for you so fast.

Of course, if the Gold Merit Cross is NOT gold, the possible "suspects" who received the silver-gilt version 1916-18 are much smaller.

[seeheld]

Hi Rick,

please excuse me. I'm at the moment very busy...

Thank you for the the name!

I'll try to find out some more informations. The golden merite cross looks like real gold for me.

[seeheld]

Hi Rick,

yesterday I checked this bar again. The first merite cross is made from gold.

See attachment.

And I checked the name Wilhelm Heine. I don't think so that this name ist correct. The owner shut be a fire fighter or volunteer fire fighter.

I have an other favorite.

I believe August H?ting is possible.

He received both merit crosses as Senator at the city of B?ckeburg and the fire fighting decorations as honor member in the volunteer fire figthing department in the same town. But I'm not really sure...

Edited October 5, 2007 by seeheld

[Guest Rick Research]

According to the Orders Almanac, H?ting did have these three Schaumburg awards, but his Saxe-Weimar Order of the White Falcon Merit Cross was the GOLD "4a" class, not silver "4b", as here. His entry does not list the volunteer fire decoration.

As I say, I have ONLY the Ehrenkreuz rolls for Schaumburg, and not the volunteer fire award or merit medals, so the only suspects I have are those with the fire award listed in the 1908/09 Orders Almanac...

and that is exactly one match: Heine.

If the Orders Almanac (whose entries on MOST Lippe awards are a horror show of errors got that Weimar award wrong, then H?ting is a good suspect too.

He received his SL SVK 12.10.93 as "August H?ting, Zimmermeister." (1st names in entries are miraculous on these rolls)

He received his SL GVK 10.10.01 as "Senator H?ting."

Even if somebody had this period of Weimar's horrible rolls, this Silver Merit Cross may be a tough one, since it is on the wrong ribbon, and so THAT may not even be a good indication of the CORRECT ribbon for the time when it was awarded in green-black-yellow LIKE the ribbon shown, before changing over to the Order's solid red.

There are probably rolls for the Schaumburg merit medals volunteer fire decoration, but I don't have them. (A roll for the 1907 Jubilee medal would also be nice. ) They would be of extremely limited use since the entries are merely award dates and last names with a job title-- "Schmidt, Oberf?rster."

Everything else for identifying Schaumburg groups I have done by cross-checking all the Honor Cross awards and checking Rank Lists and the Orders Almanac, as well as comparing awards with rival Detmold.

[Guest Rick Research]

Better luck with THIS Schaumburg trio:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=22066

with only one person possible.

[Guest Rick Research]

And once again, the Orders Almanac got it WRONG! (100 years old and full of errors)

August H?ting indeed it was

Here is his entry from the 1912 "Schaumburg-Lippischer Kalendar"--

This is intresting since it shows he'd moved up from a carpenter in 1893 to a mill owner in 1911!

I've just been through the Schaumburg Kalendar today adding first names to their wretched Rolls and filling in VERY nice groups for identifications-- also of considerable help with Detmold, since so many court flunkies had awards from both states-- as many as FIVE on the shared ribbon!

(Research Gnomes NEVER forget a medal bar, no matter how much time passes.)