Need Help with a Prussian Bar

[Digger Doug]

Hello,

I've been primarlily a collector of Soviet and Japanese items but recently came across an Imperial bar with the following decorations on it:

Iron Cross Second Class

Red Eagle Order 4th Class Without Swords

Prussian Long Service Cross for 15 Years of Service

1870 War Medal for Combatants

Kurhessen Medal 1813 30. November 1913

1897 Kaiser Centennial Medal

Merit Cross for War Aid

I'm thinking seriously about it but the only reference I have is a 1979 Nimmergut catalog. Can anyone tell me anything about this combination of medals? Is it correct? Can I assume this guy had a ~40 year career? What should I pay for it?

Thanks!

Doug

[Ulsterman]

what year is the EK2-and are you certain it was an Xv LS medal?

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes, which war's EK2, and on what ribbon?

The combination does indeed make sense for an OLD 1870 ex-career NCO (M1825 "XV" brooch updated to the M1913 type, as the WW1 award(s) would indicate) in some sort of Beamten position where he got a Red Eagle 4 for his lifetime's service, rather than a Crown Order 4. Chances are he was a civil servant to have attained that (one of the innumeraable positions that ended up with a generic courtesy title of "Rechnungsrat" most likely), and may well have switched over to a uniformed version of his civilian job in 1914.

If that 30.11.1913 medal is the one with the LION on it, it indicates he had served in Infantry Regiment 82. Since this bar is "out there" somewhere, and you are THINKING about it, PM me and I'll give you the award numbers.

I know of no published roll for any of these jubilee medals, but hope springs eternal. WITH a roll and the Orders Almanac, it could well be traceable... some day....

[Digger Doug]

Thanks for the replies. The Iron Cross is the 1914 issue. The long service cross is XV which threw me off a bit as I would have assumed this guy would have had more service. The 30 November medal does indeed have a lion on the front. Is this bar worth $500 US?

All the best,

Doug

[Digger Doug]

I forgot to add, the Iron Cross is on the combattant ribbon.

[Guest Rick Research]

Is it pretty? Clean? Nice condition?

500 is a BARGAIN. If in nice condition, run-do-not-walk. (Though PIX would be nice to see beforehand).

Civil servants got no long service awards except in the railways. And military officials (if he had remained in some sort of uniform throughout) were only eligible for the XXV years long service cross AFTER the World War--military long services were suspended "for the duration." So that is a perfect wartime career military officials or wartime/1920s bar to a recalled civil servant.

[Ulsterman]

Hmmmmm-perhaps an OberBahnInspektor in a Landwehr unit in occupied territories somewhere??

Edited September 28, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Digger Doug]

Here is the bar. I'm still experimenting with a new scanner so this might not be too good.

[Digger Doug]

Here's a pic of the reverse. I need to spend more time with my image software. Thanks again for all the help with this.

Doug

[Digger Doug]

Here's a larger image.

[Kev in Deva]

Excuse me. Just had to change it, I was getting a pain in the neck looking at it posted your way Kevin in Deva.

[Kev in Deva]

And the reverse, clearly showing the extension

Kevin in Deva.

[Guest Rick Research]

Yup-- the Red Eagle has slipped, but looks right. If that had been a General Decoration Medal there the dumb soldered ring used on those would have marked the ribbon differently.

Note that the Iron Cross ribbon is draped opposite to the way the others are, too--

this OLD boy clearly had his pre-WW1 awards transferred over onto a newer backing, than updated again "on the cheap." Very typical work.

It MIGHT be possible that an 1870 EK2 with Oakleaves had been on there and has been replaced, so will keep an open mind on that when trying to match the combination.

With only 172 of that particular 1913 Jubilee Medal (for ancient former members of Infantry Regiment 82) awarded, IF somebody can turn up the rolls for that series of medals, an ID should be possible. Then we caan hope for an enrtry in the Orders Almanach.

In my opinion, the 1913 Jubilees are ridiculously undervalued given their scarcity. This is a case where supply and demand have yet to mesh.

Won't matter when that day comes-- because you've GOT yours!