A Baden-W?rttemberg Godet Ribbon Bars Pair

[Guest Rick Research]

Every so often I have to let you Zinky People know that all the really stuff is down in Imperial where you never look.

Here are a pair of ribbon bars to the same officer. The style of ribbon bar hardware with a catch shaped like an = and the light gray backings are characteristics of work by the Godet company. The eagles on the lower bar were made by Otto Schickle, which suggests that Godet also bought parts and did not--at least this late--make all components themselves.

Reading the career that these bars tell us reveals that we have a fairly senior, over-aged "retread" (Erg?nzungs or "(E)" officer brought back to military service under the Third Reich's rearmament in the early 1930s. The lower bar predates the Austrian Anschluss of 1938, after which Austro-Hungarian awards ceased being in last place as foreign and were incorporated into precdence like any other pre-1919 Imperial German federal state. The upper bar is from early WW2--

1) Prussian Iron Cross 1914 2nd Class

2) 1939 War Merit Cross 2nd Class with Xs

3) W?rttemberg Friedrich Order-Knight 1st X (for Captains) or Knight 2nd X (for Lieutenants)

4) Baden Order of the Z?hringen Lion-Knight 2nd Class X (for Lieutenants) or Knight 2nd Class with Xs and Oakleaves (For Captains-- but a scarce and little-seen device not stocked by most outfitters)5) Austro-Hungarian Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration (wreath--their basic "EK2" equivalent)

6) Hindenburg Cross for WW1 Combatants

7) Wehrmacht 18 Years Service Cross (army or navy eagle)

8) Wehrmacht 4 Years Service Medal (same).

Godet's bar backing gives no clue as to the uniform color of the wearer, but no matter. This is NOT a naval combination, and in fact there were no WW1 naval officess with the four 1914-18 awards shown here as a group.

Of course, it is possible that an officer who joined the army in 1915/16 MIGHT have had a bar like this with only "18," since he hadn't completed the "25" by when awards of the Wehrmacht long services ceased being processed For The Duration in 1939. But there were no former WW1 Leutnants in Wehrmacht career service with the two German WW1 Orders in the classes for Lieutenants.

How do we know that? We have the rolls.

There were, after working through all the WW1 suspects who had both German awards from Baden and W?rttemberg, only THREE who were serving in the Wehrmacht as (E) officers before the Second war. Two definitely had the calendar years of combined Imperial and Wehrmacht service to have gotten the "18" while the 3rd most probably had an Imperial XXV which was swapped for an even exchange even though Imperial service counted double during WW1 for the OLD long service awards and NOT the new ones.

Edited October 22, 2007 by Rick Research

[Guest Rick Research]

Bars above belonged to ONE of these, per rolls?

Wilhelm FORST

Leutnant 19.10.05 Oo Baden Dragoner Regiment 21

at Cavalry Signals School when WW1 began

Oberleutnant 5.9.14

Rittmeister 18.9.15 Ss

Charakterisiert Major aD circa 1920

BZ3bX 23.1.15 as Oberleutnant, Signals Section, 7th Cavalry Division

WF3aX 15.4.16 as Rittmeister commanding Nachrichten Abteilung, 7. Kavallerie Division

Major (E) 1.7.33 #39 January 1939 on staff of Kommandantur, Berlin

Oberstleutnant (E)

Oberst (S) 1.2.42 # 144 (Cavalry) May 1944 still Staff of Berlin Commandant?s Office

Kurt Wittekind

Leutnant 17.8.07 Hh Baden Dragoner Regiment 22

Oberleutnant 27.1.15

Rittmeister 28.12.16 B

and aD in that rank circa 1920

BZ3bX 29.1.15 as Leutnant in Telegraph Battalion 3

WF3aX 31.8.18 as Rittmeister on General Staff of the 26th Landwehr Division

Major (E) 1.9.35 #7 January 1939 staff of Wehrwirtschafts Inpektion XVIII?Salzburg (ex-Austria)

Oberstleutnant (E)

Oberst (S) 1.4.42 #46 (Panzer) May 1944 R?stungs Inspektor, Saarbr?cken, Wehrkreis XII

I suspect from his January 1939 assignment he MIGHT have received the Austrian Anschluss medal for 1938, which would remove him as a suspect.

Remotely, a third officer who I think received an Imperial XXV Years Service Cross and would have swapped it for the Wehrmacht pair is not completely ruled out:

Friedrich H?ndle

Leutnant 18.5.02 A Infantry Regiment 69

Oberleutnant 23.5.11 P2p Staff of War School Ettlingen

Hauptmann 8.10.14 A22a

charakterisiert Major aD circa 1920

BZ3bXmE 10.12.14 as Hauptmann & Company Commander, Reserve Infantry Regiment 65

WF3aX 19.1.17 as Hauptmann iG stellvertretender (Home Establishment) general Staff of the Army

Major (E)

Oberstleutnant (E)

Oberst (E) 1.8.37 #4 January 1939 on staff of the Abwehr/OKW

Retired or dead by May 1944

There were no other recipients of any combination of grades WF3bX/WF3aX and BZ3bX/BZ3bXmE serving in the Wehrmacht as recalled officers in 1939 with a Wehrmacht 18 possible.

What would knock down "3" to The One would be finding out who among these three received the AUSTRIAN WW1 award.

[Mike Dwyer]

1) Prussian Iron Cross 1914 2nd Class

2) 1939 War Merit Cross 2nd Class with Xs

3) Baden Order of the Z?hringen Lion-Knight 2nd Class X (for Lieutenants) or Knight 2nd Class with Xs and Oakleaves (For Captains-- but a scarce and little-seen device not stocked by most outfitters)

4) W?rttemberg Friedrich Order-Knight 1st X (for Captains) or Knight 2nd X (for Lieutenants)

5) Austro-Hungarian Military Merit Cross 3rd Class with War Decoration (wreath--their basic "EK2" equivalent)

6) Hindenburg Cross for WW1 Combatants

7) Wehrmacht 18 Years Service Cross (army or navy eagle)

8) Wehrmacht 4 Years Service Medal (same).

Rick,

I'm waaayyy out of my league here, and I know you're the man!, but don't you have 3 and 4 reversed? I thought the Z-Lion was on the green ribbon edged yellow, which is is 4th place on the upper ribbon bar and the W?rttemberg Friedrich Order is in #3. (I think your eyes may have shifted to the lower bar which has the Z-Lion in #2 and the W?rttemberg Friedrich Order in #3.

[Guest Rick Research]

You're right. I typed them in the order they are from the lower bar not the upper one. Fixed now.

And the Z?hringen Lion "BZ3bX" itself in all its unique green crystal

Completely Non-Zinky!

[webr55]

What would knock down "3" to The One would be finding out who among these three received the AUSTRIAN WW1 award.

Yes! We need those ?MK3 rolls from Vienna! I can't imagine they were destroyed there at some point. They must be in some archive!!

[Guest Rick Research]

They actually published annual lists (no day or month) during the war. Someday, someday.