1916 sleeve oval badges

[Ulsterman]

In looking through my Medics photos for Legionnaire B's site thread, I noticed that I had a couple that had the oval sleeve badge on them. I vaguely recall thinking these were established @ 1916 but in looking at my reference materials I can not find when or what they were. They show up, are mentioned casually here and there, but I can't find a chart or listing of them. I know there was a MG badge and a signals one and I think this astulapstab abzeichen means veterinarians/medics section,-but are there any others? I'd be grateful for any information.

Ta,

Edited November 7, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Guest Rick Research]

I've seen them on dark blue tunic material, so some time before the Great War.

Here's a senior Bavarian medical NCO wearing an officer's metal shoulder board snake (unbacked) in the same spot on his sleeve:

Betcha THIS was never authorized!

Taken by a Grafenw?hr photographer. No name, no date, no message.

[Chip]

Ulsterman,

This Sanit?terabzeichen had been around a long time before 1916. The Feldgrau example was introduced in 1909. It was worn by the trained medics within the various units and they wore the same uniform as the rest of the unit, with the exception of this patch. The sleeve patch was not worn by doctors. There are a number of sleeve insignia that were worn both before the war and during. The number increased significantly during the war as the number of units that wore field formations patches expanded.

Rick,

It is somewhat unusual to see a metal ?skulapstab being worn in the place of the normal cloth patch, but I have seen it before. It may be his way of accentualting his exalted NCO rank. Judging from his plain floppy enlisted style shoulder straps, I would say he is either a Landsturmer or has some sort of cover on his straps. Normally, only the lower NCOs (Grefreiter, Unteroffizier) were Sanit?ter. That is obviously not the case here and things may have changed because of the war, but I imagine his rank was no higher than Vizefeldwebel.

Chip

Edited November 7, 2007 by Chip

[Ulsterman]

Interesting stuff. Is this the same badge as would have been worn by enlisted vetrenarian troops?

[Guest Rick Research]

Veterinary officers had a loose "slithery" snake-- no pole. No clue what enlisted personnel wore-- if anything.

[Chip]

There were no enlisted veterinary troops. The enlisted men who worked along with the veterinarians belonged to the Train troops. The lowest veterinary ranks I know of were Unterveterin?r and the wartime ranks of Feldunterveterin?r and Feldhilfs-Veterin?r. There was no veterinary sleeve insignia. The "snake" worn by the veterinary officers looked like the one on this M10 example of an Unterveterin?r.

Chip

[dwmosher]

For authorized insignia based on the 1915 regulations, you have to break it down between Friedensuniform and Felduniform.

From what I can gather, abzeichen only on the sleeves of the Freidensuniform included the flag and standard bearers (Fahnen- und Standartentrager) on the right sleeve, prior Kaiserabzeichen on the right sleeve, lance proficiency insignia (Fechterabzeichen) on the right sleeve, signalman's insignia (Winkerflaggenabzeichen) on right sleeve and artillery sighter's insignia (Richtkanoniereabzeichen) on lower left sleeve.

The remaining authorized sleeve insignia for both the Freidensuniform and the Felduniform, include the farrier's insignia (Beschlag- und Fahnenschmiedsabzeichen) on lower left sleeve, medic insignia (Sanitatsmannschaftenabzeichen) on right sleeve, Flieger unit insignia on left sleeve, the Gibralter cuff title (for 10th Jager Batln, 73rd &76th Inf Regts) on lower right sleeve, Luftschiffer steerman and machinists (Steuerleute und Maschinisten) on the left sleeve and machinegunner's proficiency insignia on left sleeve.

I don't know if the semi-official insignia like the flammenwerfer and sturmbatallion worn on the Felduniform ever were allowed to be worn on the Friedensuniform, so maybe some out there have further information or have pictures showing them.

Regards

Dave

[Chip]

I don't know if the semi-official insignia like the flammenwerfer and sturmbatallion worn on the Felduniform ever were allowed to be worn on the Friedensuniform, so maybe some out there have further information or have pictures showing them.

Dave,

The Flammenwerfer Totenkopf sleeve patch was officially created with an AKO.

Chip

[dwmosher]

Chip

Was the Flammenwerfer insignia allowed on the Friedensuniform or just on the Felduniform?

Dave

[Chip]

Dave,

I would assume that it could be worn on any uniform since it was officially sanctioned, but I do not have a copy of the AKO, so I could not say that this is a fact. I will contact Glenn J. to see if he would copy the AKO for us.

Chip