France French colonial officer tunic, 3th empire

[Roeland]

Hello gents,

I saw this French uniform, and I am trying to buy it, however I have some questions.

-what kind of pants should go with it

-what kind of bicorne(the hat)

-should there be any shoulderboards on it, or should it just be like this (the 2 stripes)

thanks for the help

kind regards,

Roeland

[Roeland]

it would be superb if anyone has pictures from the items I'm asking for, so I know what to look for if I win the auction of this uniform.

[Djedj]

Bonsoir,

Mmmh not really my province, but this should not belong to a "Colonial officer" - rather to a French Navy one.

The detail of the embroideries is not great on your photos, but their saw-like framing was typical of navigating officers.

Being the Full Dress uniform, it should have shoulder boards indeed ; have a look there for pictorial references :

http://www.military-photos.com/cvaisseaux.htm

Cheers,

Jerome

[Roeland]

hello,

thank you for the reply,

it is a marine uniform (marine coloniale).

here's a picture of the collar and sleeve:

is there a certain type of shoulderboard it needs? or just a regular one like used on more uniforms(like the gold collored ones on the infantry uniforms)

kind regards,

Roeland

[Djedj]

Hi Roeland,

Your answer has me perplexed, as I'm not aware of the existence of a French "Marine Coloniale".

French Colonial Troops consisted mainly in "Infanterie de Marine" (equivalent of "Marines" in US terms), and later "Artillerie de Marine". This uniform is neither.

As far as I know, from the mid-XIXth Century on, the "Marine Fran?aise" (French Navy) didn't have a specific Colonial branch (it itself depending from the "Minist?re de la Marine et des Colonies"), as the Dutch had for example.

I'd think it looks much like a Navy uniform ?

Where did the "Marine Coloniale" term come to you from ?

Jerome

Edited December 12, 2007 by Djedj

[Roeland]

hello,

thank you for the reply, the seller states in his sale:

''uniforme de grande tenue d'officier de marine coloniale port? de 14 a 31''

he sells more uniforms from the navy.

I assumed the term was correct, as it looks like he knows quite a lot because he has sales more items of the same kind.

perhaps he means it is a uniform model used in the colonial areas, like in the Netherland, we have a dark collored uniform, in tropic regions we have a white uniform.

kind regards,

Roeland

Edited December 12, 2007 by Roeland

[Djedj]

Ahaaaaaa, so it's post WWI.

Here's an extract from the "Trait? de Droit Colonial", written by Pierre Dareste and published in 1931 :

"Il n'existe pas de marine coloniale, formant la contre-partie de l'arm?e coloniale.

Mais la marine de l'Etat poss?de aux colonies des services, des ?tablissements, des points d'appui, et des unit?s navales qui concourent ? la d?fense et qui sont plac?es sous l'autorit? de commandants".

Roughly translating as :

"There is no Colonial Navy, forming the equivalent of the Colonial Army.

But the Navy of the State holds in the colonies services, establishments, outposts, and naval units that participate in the defense and are placed under the authority of commandants".

Still in the 30s, the "colonial" theme was quite fashionable, and the "Marine Coloniale" term may well have been used and abused - and there was definitely much talk in the late 30s of actually establishing one.

I'm quite out of my depth here, and can't contribute much further I'm afraid.

Cheers,

Jerome

[Roeland]

thanks for the reply,

this is very usefull information for me, thank you

kind regards,

Roeland

[Veteran]

Hello Roeland

I think Djedj is absolutely right.

Nothing on that uniform points toward ANY KIND of colonial appointment. It looks like a straightforward naval officer's uniform, probably full dress.

Shoulder boards should obviously complete it, as indicated by the straps on the shoulders.

If you contemplate buying this fine piece of naval wear, you should possibly get a clear explaination from the seller about the "colonial" part of his claim.

Incidentally, France only had 2 Empires, but many more Republics (this is the 5th). Is this uniform supposed to be 2nd Empire (1852-1870) or 3rd Republic (1875-1940)?

Cheers

Veteran

Edited December 13, 2007 by Veteran

[Roeland]

hello,

thank you for your post.

I see I have made a mistake myself by saying it is 3 empire, I meant 3th republic, don't know why I got confused, but I'm sorry for the confusion it brought(didn't even notice it myself).

I'll ask the seller why he states it is colonial.

I'll still buy it, even if it is ''just'' navy instead of something colonial, I like it and I think it would look ice in my collection when I complete it with shoulderboards, the hat etc.

I'm always learning on this forum, if I wouldn't have asked I would have bought it but with the wrong information, I always like to know as much of the items I have, I really apreciate the help of other members.

I'll lett it know when the seller answers the colonial question.

kind regards,

Roeland

[Roeland]

didn't receive a message from the seller, although he only had this day to respond of course.

However the auction ended and I didn't win, could have won if I wanted but decided not to bid any higher.

It looked like someone was looking for my max. bid, bidding small bids each time (29 bids in total, private auction so no names where shown), it finally went for 1 euro more then I bidded.

381 euro

so I didn't win it, nor did I receive the answer from the seller.

Still thanks for your help guys, I definately learned something, I'll be looking for such an uniform.

kind regards,

Roeland

[Veteran]

Hello Roeland

I hope you are not too disappointed with your failure to get this uniform. From what you say, I would think the other bidder might have brought you sky-high to get it (could be this person was descended from a naval officer of that time and rank and would have paid anything to get il... I have done it myself for a very special sword my father used to own)

Best regards

Veteran

Edited December 13, 2007 by Veteran

[Roeland]

Hello,

no, I'm not dissapointed, I could have won, but I'll keep looking for another.

My bid was at 301 euro first, someone was bidding up to 299,then 300, 301, that was my bid, and he stopped bidding.

I later raised my bid (automaticaly will go to 302 euro), so he started bidding again (I always bid like 1 euro more, because most people bid round numbers like 50 euro, so I bid 51), however the last bid I did was a round number, the other bidder worked the bid up, and ended 1 euro higher, I didn't trust it as it looked like someone was looking for my max bid, it wouldn't be the first time it happened to me.

But what I learned here in this topic will come in handy one day, because I'll keep my eyes open for a uniform like that.

kind regards,

Roeland