British Head Dress ... help needed

[Christian L]

Got this british head dress and wanted to know what it is, as i'm totally unfamiliar with it.

I guess its a engineers officers cap - but thats it.

Thanks a lot in advance Christian

[Christian L]

the cap badge

[Christian L]

and the inside of the cap made by Herbert Johnson in London

[RoyalCanadianLight]

Can you please get a clear picture of the stamp on the inside? That would help alot.

[RoyalCanadianLight]

I looked agian, it seems its a RE Officers Mess Dress cap perhaps? Anyone want to back me on this?

[Christian L]

Thanks a lot - did make another pic of the stamp inside.

Hope they are more usefull now.

Thanks again Christian

[Christian L]

close up of the name tag

[Christian L]

quality!

[RoyalCanadianLight]

Love the name man, gorgeous cap. Definately a Mess Dress Cap.

[servicepub]

The Canadian Army usually followed British Army practice. If this were the case with this hat then it would be from the Royal Army Service Corps and has had a Royal Engineers badge incorrectly attached.

This type of cap is known as a forage cap and was worn with Patrols (the dark blue semi-formal uniform) and, in Canada at least, with Service Dress in lieu of a brown forage cap under certain conditions.

[RoyalCanadianLight]

The color is too dark to be a Patrol to me.

[servicepub]

The colour(s) of the forage cap did not change with the colour of the uniform. If you were in an Hussars Regiment that wore a scarlet forage cap then you wore that cap with the (blue) Patrol Dress ans well as your Scarlet Mess Dress, etc...

Here is a Royal Army Service Corps forage cap

And here is a Forage cap to the Royal Canadian Engineers

I stand by my assertation that it is a RASC cap with an incorrectly applied RE badge.

Images are from my upcoming book "200 years of Canadian Military Headdress"

Edited January 24, 2008 by servicepub

[RoyalCanadianLight]

And I stand corrected!

[leigh kitchen]

Yes, looks like a Royal Army Service Corps or its successor Royal Corps of Transport with a Royal Engineers badge applied - have you any photos of the buttons, they should have the RASC or RCT design on them.

The RE badge is an officers QE II period one.

[Tony]

Yep, I had the exact same cap (but with a plain peak) while in the RCT, dark blue with white piping. We wore it with our No. 2 uniform.

Tony

[servicepub]

Hello

Sorry, but I don?t understand "QE II period" cause I'm a beginner ih this matter. The gold line of the visor cap means (I'm not 100% sure in this case) that it is a brigadier or a colonel from Departamental and Administrative branch of the army, maybe the abreviations have this significance.

Regards

Hi Boris

The "QE II" refers to Queen Elizabeth the Second (the current Monarch) and identifies the badges as datiung from 1953 to the present. More pragmatically, it means that the badges bear the Queen's crown. The gold braid on these two caps is typical of the braid embellishments worn by Junior officers (Lieutenants and Captains) while Field Officers (Majors and Lt-Colonels) wore a row of Oak Leaf embroidery (in Canada this was Maple Leaf embroidery until the 1930s). Generals wore two rows of Oak Leaf or Maple Leaf embroidery. Peak embroidery for Colonels and Brigadiers varied depending on the date.

[Guest Rick Research]

How can a traditionally colored and shaped cap be accurately dated? 1930s? 1950s? 1970s? Are there tip offs in construction/materials that would sort caps like this out, disregarding badges that could be incorrect?

[Tony]

How can a traditionally colored and shaped cap be accurately dated? 1930s? 1950s? 1970s? Are there tip offs in construction/materials that would sort caps like this out, disregarding badges that could be incorrect?

My cap was probably made in the 70s. Although the sweatband may have been leather it did have a plastic look and feel. I don't remember it soaking up sweat either. The peak was also a shiny plastic and I think there was a clear piece of plastic sewn into the crown.

No idea about officer's hats.

Weren't service caps green up until about the 50s?

Tony

[Jerry B]

An old thread;

 

but the cap is as Clive stated a Royal Corps of Transport forage cap with incorrect Royal Engineers badge added to it.  

 

The makers mark is Herbert Johnson and is by appointment to the late King George VI so dates to between 1953  and a few years when the royal warrant was changed to by appointment to the Queen (QEII).

[leigh kitchen]

A "typo" there Jerry - RASC rather than RCT for a 1950's cap - RCT formed 1965, they wore the RASC cap minus the white piping around the lower edge of the headband.

[Jerry B]

On ‎19‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 19:23, leigh kitchen said:

A "typo" there Jerry - RASC rather than RCT for a 1950's cap - RCT formed 1965, they wore the RASC cap minus the white piping around the lower edge of the headband.

indeed Leigh, rasc as you say. I have a 1965 dated example with rasc piping but rcot buttons and badge as they became the latter in 65. I also have a later rcot fs cap with golden yellow piping.