Belgium Belgian ribbon bar ID from WWI

[Rittmeister]

Can somebody recognize the awards? I can recognize two palms and one crown on the ribbon bar. The other ones I don't know. I assume it would be something like Oorlogskruis met Palmen and Kroonorde?

[love4history]

First glance:

First row: The second ribbon indeed would be an oorlogskruis with two palms and a lion it seems. That would most likely make the first ribbon some kind of national order (Leopold II?). The third ribbon looks like the commemorative?

Second row: the attachment indeed would be a crown, maybe on the ribbon for the volunteer medal? Is there still a ribbon to the left of that? The utmost right ribbon looks like the interallied victory medal-ribbon.

On second sight: the utmost right ribbon on top could well be the Yser-medal, which would make the ribbon with the crown on the bottom row the commemorative (with crown-attachement for volunteer status). This would fit the correct wearing order as well.

Most likely...

Any other opinions?

[Hendrik]

That would most likely make the first ribbon some kind of national order (Leopold II?).

Hello Gents,

The first ribbon looks as if there's only one colour present, not the blue and black of the Leopold II order, so more likely to be either the Crown order or the Leopold order. After that the War Cross, Yser Medal, Commemorative Medal 14-18 and Victory Medal as Love4History suggests, make up the remainder.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Rittmeister]

Thanks a lot for all the quick help! I'm, however, a bit confused. Let's start with the awards that are surely to be seen;

- Ysermedaille

- Oorlogsherinneringsmedaille 1914-1918

- Overwinningsmedaille 1914-1918

So, these are sure. However, I seem to count many more medals on the bar. Am I mistaken when I count like the German system? Were Belgian ribbons wider than German ones, giving the impression to my untrained eye that there are at least 5 on each row?

I've attached an image with some numbers so that I can learn how to identify the awards properly in the future;

1) Not yet identified?

2) Oorlogskruis met twee palmen and a lion? What was the importance, if any, of a lion here?

3) Ysermedaille

4) Not yet identified? It has a crown?

According to love4history, the last bar on the second row was an interallied victory cross, I can't seem to find that one on this site, however.

So that leaves, to my untrained eye, many more awards to be identified, no? I seem to count 6 awards on the lower row alone?

Thanks for all the help and the patience with a newbie!

[love4history]

No problem Rittmeister,

I reckon' that indeed German ribbon bars could contain many more medals in a row. I'm sure someone on this forum could give you the "standard" length of ribbon per medal.

In this Belgian case there are only 3 medals on the top row and two on the bottom row (although it seems that on the very left of the bottom row there's a small light corner that could indicate another ribbon on the left....)

Medals are as per Hendrik's post:

nr 1 The first ribbon looks as if there's only one colour present, not the blue and black of the Leopold II order, so more likely to be either the Crown order or the Leopold order.

nr2 the War Cross

nr3 Yser Medal

nr4 Commemorative Medal 14-18

nr 5 Victory Medal (not victory cross)

The site you indicate IS in fact Hendrik's site On the home page you can choose from three languages. Under the War Cross/oorlogskruis/croix de guerre you will find more information on the different attachments (palms, lions) and their meaning. The crown on the commemorative medal indicates being a volunteer

Hope this clarifies things?

cheers

Roel

[Rittmeister]

Hi Roel,

Sorry for the late thank you and reply to your post! Okay, I now can make out that Belgian medal bars have their own logics. Translating the award names into their French names, I thus get this sum of (5) awards for this man;

- Ordre de la Couronne (or: Ordre de Leopold)

- Croix de guerre (avec 2 Palmes et Lion?)

- Yser-Medaille

- Medaille Commemorative de la guerre

- Medaille de la victoire

Last but not last there's the attached photo showing the man's two aiguilletes. One will surely be the Vuurkoord of his unit (which one?), which of course raises the question what the other one is for?

[love4history]

Well, I'm not really an expert as to the "vuurkoord" but as far as I remember, the Fire Cross ha/has a relatively darker uni-color , so I'd guess that would be the top one. The bottom one seems to be a bi-color but I don't have an idea as to what it would be for.

Cheers

[Hendrik]

Hello Rittmeister,

I think that at this point it would be useful if you also posted the complete picture of the man in his uniform ...

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Rittmeister]

Back to the drawing board it is for me- tried identifying this man by his awards but there are too many in his regiment with the combination we identified.

Hence my last ditch effort; is it possible that we missed an Ordre de Lepold (avec palme)? The first, white medal on the top bar seems to show two medals. It's also bothering me that there are two palms? But on the same award? I attached a better scan, hopefully it reveals something positive.

[love4history]

Hello Rittmeister

I have to second Hendrik, it would be usefull to get a scan of the whole picture/uniform at this point I reckon. Sometimes it's in the details

cheers

L4H