The Royal Northumberland Fusiliers - (***MODERATORS' CHOICE)

[Stuart Bates]

Graham,

I found another book on the 17th and 32nd but it is very pricey. http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?ac=sl&st=sl&qi=,nIbkQKQBgJof2aUjnySjqvWt9s_8069933718_1:3:187&bq=author%3Dlt%2E%2Dcol%2520shakespear%26title%3Drecord%2520of%2520the%252017th%2520and%252032nd%2520service%2520battalions%2520northumberland%2520fusiliers%2520ner%2520pioneers%25201914%2D1919

Stuart

[Graham Stewart]

Hi Stuart - yes, thats the battalion history mentioned in my post, and was one of the first I managed to get hold of, but that 48page booklet had evaded me for years. As for the cost of the booklet, well works out at about a £1.00 per page.

[leigh kitchen]

........

Nice to see the drummers leather aprons too as well as the leather holders on the belt for the 'fife' by other members of the band.

Interesting to see the way the aprons are worn Graham, to one side so as not to impede marching / walking when not actually required for use.

I have the histories of the 16th, the 17th & 32nd & of the 19th Bns NF (the 19th is ex-libris a certain Mr Grumpy) but no others.

Edited December 6, 2010 by leigh kitchen

[Ashantee]

Hi Graham

Perhaps a forerunner of your NER training booklet, this one runs to 16 pages and includes some interesting photographs of training in 1915.

Thanks to you and Leigh for making this such an interesting thread on everything Royal Northumberland Fusiliers

VBR Ashantee

[Graham Stewart]

Hi Ashantee - Yes that's the original as it appeared in the North Eastern Railway Magazine. Then the NER took all of the additional material on the battalions and turned it into a 48page booklet, including the names of all those who were serving with the battalions.

In April 1919 a further booklet was published, which was the "N.E.R. Roll of Honour", commemorating all of those Company members who had paid the ultimate sacrifice during the Great War.

[Graham Stewart]

This is the cover of the "N.E.R. Roll of Honour", published April 1919. The booklet says that some 18,339 members of staff served with H.M.Forces during the Great War, about one third of it's staff and of that number some 1,912 lost their lives. Some of you GMIC members who have visited York City in the past will have noted the massive memorial to these N.E.R. men, located just down the road from the mainline railway station, near the old N.E.R. Offices.

[Ashantee]

Thanks Graham

I had not appreciated that. Thanks for the additional information. The NER magazines are a great source of additional information.

Kind regards

Ashantee

[Graham Stewart]

I've noted the name T.GARNETT on your copy, but no man of that name is listed as serving with either the 17th or 32nd Bn's, Northumberland Fusiliers in my edition - however a T.GARNETT was employed as a painter in the Loco Shops, York, who was subsequently killed in action with the 1/5th Bn, York & Lancaster Regiment(T.F.) on 26th April 1918 as 242218 Pte Thomas Garnett, who was born & enlisted in York City. Ironically this man had previously served as 32/556 Pte Thomas Garnett, 32nd(Res)Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers(NER) before transfer to the Y&L's.

Therefore I firmly believe you have Thomas Garnett's original copy.

[Ashantee]

I've noted the name T.GARNETT on your copy, but no man of that name is listed as serving with either the 17th or 32nd Bn's, Northumberland Fusiliers in my edition - however a T.GARNETT was employed as a painter in the Loco Shops, York, who was subsequently killed in action with the 1/5th Bn, York & Lancaster Regiment(T.F.) on 26th April 1918 as 242218 Pte Thomas Garnett, who was born & enlisted in York City. Ironically this man had previously served as 32/556 Pte Thomas Garnett, 32nd(Res)Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers(NER) before transfer to the Y&L's.

Therefore I firmly believe you have Thomas Garnett's original copy.

[Ashantee]

Wow, thank you Graham, it sounds like it must be the same man. I have a number of NER magazines from the same source. I must check to see if he appears on these too. A job for the Xmas hols.

Cheers

Ashantee

[leigh kitchen]

One for Graham - the grenade from the 3-part silver & gilt Tyneside Scottish officer's shoulder title, but of white metal instead of silver.

Am I right in thinking that these were only made in silver?

[leigh kitchen]

.

[Graham Stewart]

Don't you just love it when something really nice turns up - in this case a lovely CDV studio portrait of an unknown officer of the Northumberland Fusiliers, wearing the peaked "station master" pattern forage cap and dark blue "frogged" patrol jacket which is not often seen.

The image possibly dates to around the 1890's and was taken at the studio of "T.Winter of Murree & Pindee".

[Graham Stewart]

One for Graham - the grenade from the 3-part silver & gilt Tyneside Scottish officer's shoulder title, but of white metal instead of silver.

Am I right in thinking that these were only made in silver?

Nice one and as far as I'm aware they were only ever made in silver, and I'm wondering if this has been plated as the back has the typical black verdigre, one would associate with silver. I was told that in the early 1980's some repro officers TS shoulder titles had made there way onto the market, but how true this was, I honestly couldn't say, because I never saw that many TS officers titles in all of the fairs I ever visited.

[Graham Stewart]

From the same studio and around about the same time a Sergeant of the Northumberlands wearing what would be regarded as an outragous pattern of service dress, which has either been modified or is private purchase.

The jacket has plain bomb collars and just visisble are a pair of metal titles, but even more noticable are the gold lace chevrons rather the more commonly seen khaki worsted. This is the second NF photo I have in which gold lace chevrons are worn and must pre-date the standard pattern of chevron worn with the 1902 pattern SD jackets.

[Graham Stewart]

Newly arrived today - 1st Bn,NF pamphlet "Trooping the Colours" St.Georges Day - 1926. Considering what I paid for it I have no doubt my good wife may cut my b*lls off sometime today - OUCH.

[jf42]

A basic question for the Fusilier community- and I apologise if this seems shamefully elementary: is the origin of the Fusiliers grenade or bomb symbol to do with their original association with the artillery? Or has it as much to do with their status as elite regiments, on a par (at least) with the grenadier companies of all infantry regiments- did Fusiliers indeed have grenadier coys or were they, in effect, all grenadiers? (All stories of the Fifth at Wilhlmstahl and St Lucie aside).

Many thanks,

JF

[Graham Stewart]

A basic question for the Fusilier community- and I apologise if this seems shamefully elementary: is the origin of the Fusiliers grenade or bomb symbol to do with their original association with the artillery? Or has it as much to do with their status as elite regiments, on a par (at least) with the grenadier companies of all infantry regiments- did Fusiliers indeed have grenadier coys or were they, in effect, all grenadiers? (All stories of the Fifth at Wilhlmstahl and St Lucie aside).

Many thanks,

JF

JF - will give a conscise reply on this once I get amongst my files. I've just got back to the UK after four months away.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Graham Stewart

[Graham Stewart]

Managed to get hold of this little gem to the 19th Bn, NF, unfortunately not dated, but nice to have as a companion to the other 19th Bn Xmas card posted earlier.

[Graham Stewart]

Also managed to get hold of this one too. The final "Trooping the Colours" programme for April 1968, sadly no colour plate was included.

[jf42]

Graham,

I'll look forward to that.

JF

[Graham Stewart]

A basic question for the Fusilier community- and I apologise if this seems shamefully elementary: is the origin of the Fusiliers grenade or bomb symbol to do with their original association with the artillery? Or has it as much to do with their status as elite regiments, on a par (at least) with the grenadier companies of all infantry regiments- did Fusiliers indeed have grenadier coys or were they, in effect, all grenadiers? (All stories of the Fifth at Wilhlmstahl and St Lucie aside).

Many thanks,

JF

To-date I can find no reference as to the originality of the grenade being associated with the artillery. The earliest references relate to the grenade actually being used on the Grenadier caps of the Grenadier Company since 1648. In the cases I've seen where this cap is described("The Fifth Fusiliers & it's Badges" by D.Wood), they are described thus;-

c.1648-1768 - Grenadier Company - Soldiers.

"Embroided cloth grenadier cap edged white originally, but later edged with fur. The green front carries St.George in worsted crewel work facing left. St.George wears golden armour, the horse is white and the dragon is green, with red tongue, all on a yellow patch. There are white scrolls with green leaves.

Above St.George is a crown in full colours below a white and green pom-pon. Below the dragon is a red flap bearing a white worsted Hanoverian horse and motto "Nec Aspera Terrent" (Difficulties Do Not Daunt). The back of the cap is red with white piping and it's green turn-up carries white leaves and a "grenade, the ball carrying the numeral V". The bottom edge of the cap is bound with green and white bias."

1768 - (?) - Grenadier Company

"On the front of the black bearskin cap, the Kings crest of lion and crown in silver plated metal on a black ground with the motto "Nec Aspera Terrent". On the back of the cap a "grenade with the regimental number(5) on the ball", and the badge of St.George in white set on the near top."

Denis dedicated his life to looking for examples of badges worn by the Northumberland's, and although he isn't specific as to why the 5th adopted the grenade, I would think it would be safe to say that it was to identify their Grenadier's from those of other foot regiments, as in both cases a grenade and numeral(V or 5) are used on the rear of the caps. The Drummers, Fifers and Pioneer's who also wore the same cap, only bear the regimental number(5) to identify them. The Light Company wore the light cap emblazoned with St.George.

Apologies if this doesn't answer your question, but by May 1836 on becoming Fusiliers, the grenade seemed to be worn universally throughout the regiment.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Graham Stewart

[Graham Stewart]

At long last am able to add some new items here and to begin with a Majors scarlet jacket belonging to either a Volunteer or Territorial Battalion. The difference being that all of the lace contained within the jacket has a high silver content hence the blaklish colour, plus there are the sliver plated buttons.

Also distinguishing it from a regular officers pattern is the unique silver bullion collar badges, with gilt St.George & Dragon.

Apologies for the photo quality but we have a crap camera.

Edited September 3, 2011 by Graham Stewart

[Graham Stewart]

The collar badges as described.

[Graham Stewart]

The cuff lace also in silver wire. The facings here are of a slightly different hue to the normal gosling green that I have come across.