The Royal Northumberland Fusiliers - (***MODERATORS' CHOICE)

[Graham Stewart]

A mess dress jacket belonging to Captain John Armstong Hardman Sanderson, who had originally been commissioned into the Royal Air Force Reserve of Officers(Admin Branch). He too transferred to the Regular Army and was commissioned 2nd/Lt in RNF on the 10th Sept 1956 and on the 16th Oct 1956 he was promoted Lieut.

The jacket overall is made of a slightly lighter material than Aytons.

[Graham Stewart]

The buttons are of a later pattern and the button holes do not exist at all, just stitching implying that they're there.

[Graham Stewart]

The roll collar also appears slightly different in shape to Aytons jacket.

[Graham Stewart]

And the collar badges too are of a different pattern to Aytons.

Well that's it lad's on the NF/RNF uniform front - apologies if I've put a lot of you into a coma.

[Jef]

Hello Gents,

Is there someone who owns the regimental histories or war diaries of the 22nd Bn Royal Nothumberland Fusiliers?

I'm looking for information on the 22nd battalion on 8,9, 10 and 11 November 1918. I'm making a study on the last days of the war on the frontline of the Second and Fifth Armies. 22/NF were part of the 16th Div, I don't know if they were on duty or in reserve.

Kind regards from Flanders,

Jef

[Graham Stewart]

From the 22nd Bn, War Diary;-

Ref. Map TOURNAI No.5

8th November 1918;-

"Weather very wet. Battn still in support. Made preparations for an attack on Canal. Moved forward to leap frog R.I.F., but found the enemy had evacuated the position East of the Canal."

1 O/R wounded 8/11/1918

9th November 1918 - 0650;-

"Erected bridges and crossed the Canal, obtained our objectives, by 0600 hrs. The objective was line of Railway from V.22.d.3.7 to V 15.b.9.9.. Remainder of day was spent in patrolling."

10th November 1918;-

"Examining Posts were posted at every exit from ANTOING, which we had occupied and Scouts made systamatic search of all likely places for any Bosche, who may have been left behind."

11th November 1918 - 1100;-

"Coy's at disposal of Coy Commanders. Armistice commenced."

[Jef]

From the 22nd Bn, War Diary;-

Ref. Map TOURNAI No.5

8th November 1918;-

"Weather very wet. Battn still in support. Made preparations for an attack on Canal. Moved forward to leap frog R.I.F., but found the enemy had evacuated the position East of the Canal."

1 O/R wounded 8/11/1918

9th November 1918 - 0650;-

"Erected bridges and crossed the Canal, obtained our objectives, by 0600 hrs. The objective was line of Railway from V.22.d.3.7 to V 15.b.9.9.. Remainder of day was spent in patrolling."

10th November 1918;-

"Examining Posts were posted at every exit from ANTOING, which we had occupied and Scouts made systamatic search of all likely places for any Bosche, who may have been left behind."

11th November 1918 - 1100;-

"Coy's at disposal of Coy Commanders. Armistice commenced."

Thank you, Graham. Great information

Jef

[jf42]

To-date I can find no reference as to the originality of the grenade being associated with the artillery. The earliest references relate to the grenade actually being used on the Grenadier caps of the Grenadier Company since 1648.... by May 1836 on becoming Fusiliers, the grenade seemed to be worn universally throughout the regiment.

Sorry to take so long to respond to this, I had been hoping to condense information I had but have not had the time.

I think 1648 would be too early for either grenadier or fusilier symbols. I wonder if some digits were reversed and that should read '1684'?

My understanding is that the earliest record of units in Britain that we can recognise as grenadiers comes from1677-78 when Earl of Mar formed companies of grenadiers at Stirling Castle. It seems that Mar's "Greybreeks' were designated Scots Fuzileers in 1685. In the same year, The Royal Ordnance Regiment with twelve coys of fusiliers and one of miners was formed at The Tower. The title was changed to the Royal Regiment of Fuzileers in 1691 at which time they lost their ordnance role.

My interest lies in understanding how the grenade came to be a Fusilier symbol, whether it came from the early association with Artillery (and their flaming shell/grenade badge) or from an identification of Fusiliers as elite infantry, effectively the equivalent of European grenadier regiments.

This was clearly the status that the Vth sought over seventy odd years until it was finally granted in 1836- and which was granted to the 20th Regiment in 1881 and the Royal Warwickshire in 1963.

[jf42]

A further question on another aspect of The 5th Northumberland Fusliers' uniform. When Fusiliers adopted a falling plume on their shakos prior to the re-introduction of the Fusilier fur cap in 1866, which portion of the Vth's falling plume was red and which was white?

[Graham Stewart]

The only true "falling" plume that I can think of, is this one as worn with the Albert Shako - however I can't remember the date period for it's wear. All of my other prints in which the shako is worn show upright plumes. I think I'm also right in saying they were the only infantry regiment to wear a bi-coloured plume, as the rest of the infantry just wore white.

Edited September 23, 2011 by Graham Stewart

[jf42]

A beautiful print. Thank you. The shako is the so called 'quilted' shako, authorised 1861-69, that replaced the unsuccessful 2nd 'Albert' introduced after the Crimea. The fusilier on the left carries an Enfield percussion-fired, muzzle-loading musket which was replaced by the Snyder breech-loader from 1866. Somebody might be able to comment on the tunics.

As far as I am aware, fusiliers and light infantry (except HLI, I think) adopted hanging plumes with the 2nd Albert from 1856 while line continued wearing white-over-red 'ball tufts, ' in the main, with Royal regiments wearing all-red from 1870.

You are right, unlike the Vth, the Royal Fusiliers and Royal Welch Fusiliers wore all-white plumes until the fur cap was re-introduced in 1866. Light Infantry continued with their green hanging plumes until 1874.

Is it me or do all the three men to the right look related?

Edited September 23, 2011 by jf42

[Graham Stewart]

I believe this is the previous Albert shako to which you refer, as worn by the 5th, which had a ball tuft.

[jf42]

If I keep asking, will these images keep coming?

This picture is of the Vth in the last years of the coatee, wearing the first so-called 'Albert' pattern shako worn between c.1844-1855. The officer's broad-crowned forage cap dates the scene to before 1852.

Introduced in 1843, the most notable feature of the 'Albert' shako was the second peak at the rear, similar to a contemporary Austrian pattern (perhaps more responsible for the design than Prince Albert). It was worn by the troops sent to the Crimea, though it was little seen after the initial action march to Sevastopol and the battle of the Alma. Troops apparently quickly found ways of 'losing' their caps which, IIRC, would reappear stuffed with earth on the parapets of field fortifications.

Even before it was being disposed of in great numbers by the men on duty in the trenches at Sevastopol, the shako had proved heavy and uncomfortable. It was described as "inconvenient' in the Sikh Wars (What does that say about the previous model Bell-Top?) and not surprisingly many battalions campaigned in their forage caps. Nonetheless, it took another five years for a replacement to be ordered to complete the new, 'modern' uniform that was authorised too late for the Crimea.

This was the first, double-breasted tunic introduced in 1855, accompanied by the second 'Albert' pattern shako. The cap was still peaked fore-and-aft but lower than the previous model and with the band sloping back from the brow to the occiput, giving it a distinct tilt forward, recalling for some the shako and kepi forage cap of the contemporary French army. Unfortunately, the 2nd pattern 'Albert' shako was not successful either and it was quickly replaced by the blue, 'quilted' shako shown in your previous post.

It was this 1861 shako that the Fusiliers and Light Infantry wore with the falling horse hair plume in full dress.

[Graham Stewart]

If I keep asking, will these images keep coming?.

If I provide prints of the 5th, you can provide the write-ups as I'm overseas again and have none of my uniform notes with me. Just hope they're proving of some interest to you, considering it's just to one regiment.

[Graham Stewart]

Again a Simkins print of the 5th Foot 1812. Over to you JF42.

[Graham Stewart]

Simkins again - 5th Foot, 1812. Pioneer, Bandmaster(?), Drummer. I was going to put Drum Major, but don't think the rank existed during this period so I may need correcting.

Edited September 24, 2011 by Graham Stewart

[jf42]

Well, these prints of 1812 uniforms are interesting because the 5th (Northumberland) Regt were only granted their red-tipped feather in1829.

Previously, they had worn a white feather, which as many of you will know, was said to be a trophy from the battle of La Vigie on St Lucia in December, 1778, when a small British force inflicted a bloody defeat on the numerically superior French force attempting to recapture the island. Traditionally, the distinction commemorates the picking up of white feathers from the hats of fallen French troops. (It seems battalion coys in the French army, known as fusiliers, had been ordered to wear white feathers in their hats from 1776, grenadier coys, white and red; chasseurs (light coys), green and white. It would appear these were also worn in tropical service uniforms.)

There is no contemporary record of this happening but the battalion officer and man of the Fifth in Daye's watercolour from c.1791 are shown wearing white feather in their hats, indicating the custom was well established within twenty odd years of the battle. The Fifth's white feather distinction was finally authorised in 1824, backed up by testimony, (albeit a little ambiguous*) from General Lord Harris, who was a veteran of the campaign. This put the Fifth on a par with the Fusiliers and Flank coy grenadiers, who had been wearing a white feather in their hats since the AWI, and the First Foot Guards, who had worn a white plume in their bearskin caps since they were awarded the title of Grenadier in 1815.

When it was decreed in 1829 that all line infantry should wear a white feather on their shakos, "rifle and light infantry regiments excepted," the Fifth protested that this would extinguish their "distinction of wearing a feather different from the rest of the army" (What the Guards, Fusiliers and grenadiers said about this, I'm not sure).

As a result, the powers decreed,"adverting to the gallantry of the exploits which contained for that corps its original distinction, his Lordship has been pleased to submit to his Majesty, that the Fifth regiment shall, in future, wear a feather half red and half white, the red uppermost, instead of the plain white feather worn by the rest of the army per the 1829 order, as a peculiar mark of honour, whereby its former services will still be commemorated, and a perpetual incitement be afforded to a continuance

of its good conduct."

So, Simpkin is about seventeen years too early in his depicting men of the Fifth (Northumberland) Regt wearing red-over-white shako plumes. A curious error.

I'm also wondering if the Pioneer's 'Fusilier' cap is not more of a mid-19th century shape but I would straying into an area I am not too familiar with.

{*Note: (1824) Lord Harris was quoted as saying "All he could himself remember, at that distant period, relative to the white feather, was, that after the action of St. Lucie, when the men of the 5th were taking the feathers from the hats of the Frenchmen who were killed, they said to each other “No one will dispute our right to the white feather after this day.” I can vouch that, for the twenty-six years I was with them, from ensign to lieutenant-colonel, they wore the white feather without a stain [sic]"

As Harris was a Major in 1778, this could be construed as saying the 5th had been wearing the white feather before St Lucia. He had been an ensign in 1762 when, coincidentally, the Fifth had won an earlier set of battle trophies in the form of the fur caps of the Grenadiers de France and the Grenadiers Royaux at Wilhemstahl. These would later be worn on parade to the annoyance of local generals. as in Philadelphia, Jan 1778. However, the good general also confessed that "at that distant period", "his memory, never very good, could now be of so little service to his old corps." He might have momentarily confused the two trophies in his mind.

Edited September 24, 2011 by jf42

[Graham Stewart]

[Graham Stewart]

Moving onto a later period and the wearing of the bell topped shako. I have another to post and then you can compare the two.

[Graham Stewart]

The second print again with a bell topped shako.

[jf42]

Ok.Your first man is in fact wearing the so-called 'Regency' or 'Prussian' shako that in 1816 replaced the eminently practical 1812 shako ('Belgic'; 'Waterloo') shown in your last post. That quality alone would explain why the 1812 cap lasted only four years before being replaced by the expensive and top-heavy "Regency"-7 1/2 inches high, 9 inches across at the top and with a hackle-feather 'plume' 12 inches long. In 1822, another inch was added to the shako's height and officers' lapels were shaped into the fine, padded 'plastron' effect, shown in this illustration.

The Fifth's white feather was at this stage still unofficial- not that they were trying to dodge attention! Indeed, the 12-inch plume may have been why the powers finally decided to ask the Regiment what the authorisation was for their 'different' feather. It had become impossible to ignore. In fact, though, many non-uniform distinctions dating from the French wars, or before, were being questioned at this time; partly because of concern about mounting expense from non-regulation embellishments. Most seem to have been sanctioned- red bonnet feathers, exclusive use (42nd, 1822), white feathers (5th, 1824), red light coy feathers (46th, 1833), black collar 'flashes' (23rd, 1834). Or perhaps we just remember the one's that were permitted!

This 'Regency' uniform lasted till 1829, when the double-breasted coatee was introduced for officers and all ranks in the Guards. Line soldiers still wore a single-breasted laced coatee. This was accompanied by the "Bell-Top" shako, 6 1/4 inches high and an impossible 11 inches in diameter across the crown; looking very impressive in illustrations but cumbersome and uncomfortable in practice. Hardly any surprise the forage cap was worn for service in the field.

Shortly after, a white 'plume' -12 inches long for officers- was ordered for all infantry apart from Lights and Rifles who, in a rare burst of practicality had been authorised a green 'ball tuft'. This provoked the Fifth's protest. Five years later, sense prevailed again, in that the white feather, by then only 8 inches long (and now tipped with red for the 5th Northumberland regiment) was replaced with a white 'ball tuft' ( tipped in red, etc., etc.). The next year the Fifth became Fusiliers.

The gentleman in your second print would appear to be a field officer in 1829, immediately before the red tip was authorised for the Fifth's white shako plume.

(This is mostly coming, by the way, from Michael Barthorp- 'British Infantry Uniforms since 1660' with background from Robert Wilkinson Latham- 'Scottish Military Uniforms.' I have also learned a great deal from the good folk at Victorian Wars Forum as well as RevList and RWProgressive at Yahoo groups. )

[jf42]

A footnote to my point about the Fifth not trying to avoid official notice of their non-regulation cap distinction. I should qualify that facetious aside by pointing out that in 1824, when the Regiment were granted Royal approval for "the "White Feather", which for a long series of years has been worn as a mark of distinction by the Fifth Regiment of Foot, being continued to be used by that corps." - they were in the West Indies.

The correspondence was between the Adjutant General and Colonel Sir Charles Pratt of the Fifth Regiment in England, The regiment was split between Dominica and, appropriately enough, St Lucia. Can we imagine how gratefully the companies paraded to celebrate in Full Dress with coatees, heavy shakos and newly authorised 12-inch feather?

The Regiment was in Ireland when they protested over the white feather for the rest of the infantry and were granted the red tip to the feather of the Fifth.

When the title of 'Fusilier' was finally granted to the Fifth (Northumberland) Regt., they were in Malta as part of a ten year tour in the Med between 1832 and 1842 (Gib/Malta/Ionian Isles/Gib). Nice. One wonders how elated the soldiers were to learn of their new right to wear a fur cap on parade.

(By the way I should also have mentioned T.C. Mills' invaluable 'British Regiments' site -now archived. Strangely enough, he overlooked the Fifth's elevation to Fusilier status in 1836.)

[Graham Stewart]

Two more prints with which to practice you skills and a more familiar aspect of headwear as the 5th Foot in 1835.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Graham Stewart

[Graham Stewart]

Apologies if they're not as large as the previous prints, but I've had to scale them right down.

[jf42]

Post: 323.

I thought this must be the frontispiece page of the: 'Historical record of the Fifth Regiment of Foot, or Northumberland Fusiliers: containing an account of the formation of the regiment in 1674, and of its subsequent services to 1837' (one of a series of regimental histories published in the mid-C19th under the name of Richard Cannon, Adjutant General's department).

However, I was mistaken. The image, of the same period, nonetheless represents the apogee of the Fifth in its progress towards recognised elite status. A fusilier, corporal and senior NCO (Sgt Major?) are shown with 'grenadier' wings on their coatees, grenadier badges on acoutrements and on their new fur fusilier caps with the unique Fifth red-on-white feathers authorised in 1829.

The date on the illustration is a year out, though. It was in May, 1836, that the Regiment was authorised to be "Equipped as Fusiliers, and styled the Fifth Regiment of Foot, or Northumberland Fusiliers", with the honour 'Wilhemstall' to be inscribed on new colours, which were presented at Malta on 14th December by the Governor General, Major General Sir Henry Bouverie (Cannon, 1837)

Post 324. An officer in his double-breasted coatee (1830) holding a fur cap with a plume which had me confused for a moment. The red tip appears to be so faded it looks almost white, which made me wonder for a moment if I wasn't looking at an officer of the Seventh, Royal Fusiliers or Twenty third, Royal Welch Fusliiers. The (vibrantly) green facings put me right. This uniform lasted till 1844, when fusilier caps were done away with and fusiliers were ordered to wear the 'Albert' shako, described above, with a large grenade badge on the front, bearing regimental distinctions on the 'ball,' ie. the case of the grenade.

In the case of the Fifth, that would be St George and the Dragon, would it not? The worsted 'ball tuft' on the new shako was, of course, red over white.

Does that bring us full circle?