Belgium BELGIUM. H. VAN DERNOOT MEDAL 1789

[Veteran]

Hello every one

I am investigating this silver medal (51x44mm - 36grs).

It was described by Hremann v. Heiden in 1903 as a badge worn by the Belgian Rebel Commanders and members of the Council when the Brabant Revolt was successful in 1789. Very helpful information has been kindly given by the members of the outstanding french-speaking forum (Forum des Insignes et M?dailles) which confirms much of this.

One point remains to be clarified : what type of suspension could it have been worn from - ribbon or chain ? v. Heiden stated that it was a Belgian tricolour ribbon, but I find it rather difficult to believe.

One of these medals was sold at auction in The Hague by Schulmann in 1985.

I would tryly appreciate ane answer to that questuib as well as every bit of additionnal information. Thank you

Veteran

[paul wood]

Hello every one

I am investigating this silver medal (51x44mm - 36grs).

It was described by Hremann v. Heiden in 1903 as a badge worn by the Belgian Rebel Commanders and members of the Council when the Brabant Revolt was successful in 1789. Very helpful information has been kindly given by the members of the outstanding french-speaking forum (Forum des Insignes et M?dailles) which confirms much of this.

One point remains to be clarified : what type of suspension could it have been worn from - ribbon or chain ? v. Heiden stated that it was a Belgian tricolour ribbon, but I find it rather difficult to believe.

One of these medals was sold at auction in The Hague by Schulmann in 1985.

It is certainly a very rare item and I have examined the illustration of the Schulman piece, Nov 1985, lot 2556 and yours is struck form the same dies. There is a lot of information about van Noot on the internet, especially the Wikpedia site which gives a good concise biography and his role in the Belgian revolt. As to suspension looking at the ring it would have been worn as a neck baddge, either suspended from a chain or a long thin ribbon from the Dutch draagpennings which are contemporary they were ussually worn with a single coloured ribbon. Whether van Heiden attribution is correct I doubt. The Dutch pieces were very much badges of political allegience as I suspect this is. Their low survival rate would suggest that in most cases they were destroyed, certainly after October 1790 it would have been a most dangerous thing to be found with and the likelihood if caught in possession was a lengthy spell in prison

Paul

[Veteran]

[Bear]

Hello,

I didn't have any luck on the medal shown, but I did find some info on another medal. Maybe the same Van Dernoot.

Times of London

5 Feb 1790

A medal has just been struck, representing Mess. VAN DER NOOT and VAN DER MERSCH, face to face, the device a pen and sword crossed with the motto "Mente & Menu." The engraving is well executed; the artist conceals his name through modesty.

thanks,

barry

[Bear]

Hello,

I found something else. I'll post the link and leave you alone.

Maybe an example of the ribbon that might have been on the medal. One of the items shows a ribbon attached.

http://www.bnb.be/pub/07_00_00_00_00/07_07...m?l=en&t=bu

thanks,

barry

[Veteran]

Thank you, Barry, for this very interesting link. It does seem as if this type of medal was worn from a ribbon, the colours of which are difficult to see on the picture.

I am most grateful.

Regards

Veteran

[Veteran]

Thank you, Barry, for this very interesting link. It does seem that this type of medal was worn from a ribbon, the colours of which are difficult to see on the picture.

I am most grateful.

Regards

Veteran

[Vatjan]

If it was suspended at a ribbon, it could very easily have been the belgian tri-colore.

Many of the 1830 revolutionary symbols actually find their origin in the 1789 Brabant Revolution.

The "Union gives strength" motto, the national colours, the name of the national anthem: the "Braban?onne" all these symbols can be traced back to the 1789 revolution.

Jan

[Veteran]

Hello Jan

Thank you for this additionnal information which brings further knowledge to this badge. Now that you have mentionned it, "La Bran?onne" makes better sense to me as the Belgian Marseillaise.

You have drawn a "fransquillon" closer to Belgian history. I appreciate. Your conclusion that the colours of the ribbon (if it was a ribbon) be a tricolour is supported by an other of you compatriots on a different website; I do hope some one will turn up with a portrait wearing the medal.

Very best regards

Paul

[Vatjan]

Hi Paul,

The National Archives edited a very interesting booklet on the origins of the Belgian national symbols.

Unfortunately at the archives itself it is sold out, and I only have the flemish version.

But maybe you could find one online.

Auteur: DUBOIS S., JANSSENS J., avec la collaboration de A.MINKE

Titre: La Belgique en sc?ne : symboles - rituels - mythes (1830-2005)

Ann?e: 2005

S?rie: Educatieve dienst - Service ?ducatif Catalogi - Catalogues 23

Num?ro de la publication: 4449

Prix: 10,00 ?, (?puis?)

Best regards

Jan

[Veteran]

Jan

Thank you very much for this important reference. I will certainly try and get hold of a copy in French, as you have suggested.

Thanks to all the members on this forum whose help has been so significant for me to understand this strange and anusual medal. It means a lot more to me.

Greetings to all

Veteran