Vice-Steuermann

[Claudius]

Hello;

1) Does anyone know what is the equilivant English rank of "Vice-Steuermann"?

2) What does the Vice-Steuermann insignia look like? Are there any photos of the insignia of a "Vice-Steuermann"?

Thank you for your help,

-Claudius

[Guest Rick Research]

I can't find my Imperial naval ratings chart.

I think that rank, basically only for reserve officer candidates (?) on their way to being commissioned as Leutnants zur See der Reserve or der Seewehr, was two crossed anchors under an Imperial crown on the sleeve, like a Chief Boatswain's Mate in the U.S. navy. The rank insignia would have been the same for the two categories, but their TITLES were distinct: Obersteuermannsmaat/Vize-Steuermann. The established rank Steuermann was a Warrant Rank, wearing the devices on Deck Officer shoulder straps. An Obersteuermann had an Imperial crown over the device on his Warrant Officer straps.

[Chip]

According to Zienert's book, "Unsere Marineuniform";

"Die Vizesteuerleute, Vizefeuerwerker, Vizemaschinisten und Ingenieurasprianten tragen die Uniform der aktiven Steuerleute, Feuerwerker,.......". So, to me this means that they wear the uniform of a deck officer with the Laufbahn insignia on the shoulder boards without the Kaiser crown. Obersteuerleute, Oberfeuerwerker, etc. wore the branch device with the crown.

Chip

[Chip]

If you still need a picture of what the insignia would look like, just let me know and I will scan it for you. Basically, just a dark blue wool board with gilt metal, crossed anchors.

Chip

[Guest Rick Research]

Would they have worn officers' cap insignia, like a F?hnrich?

[Claudius]

Great! The sailor I am examining was a Oberbootsmannmaat (9/1916). I was told the rank was similar to a Chief Boatswain Mate, but that person was not an expert in naval rank equilivants. The insignia is a dark blue oval cloth with a fouled anchor and the imperial crown above, all in gold-colored thread.

Later he was promoted (10/1918) to Vice-Steuermann.

Chip -is the crossed anchors in gold thread (made of spun gold) or a stamped piece of gold-colored metal on a dark blue oval cloth? And there is no imperial crown over the anchors? Yes, if it isn't too much trouble, could you show me photo of the rank badge and/or shoulderboards.

Rick Research -Thank you for that background information. It is all important as I try to learn what his rank as Oberbootsmannmaat and then Vice-Steuermann would have made him responsible for and what men (if any) were under his command.

[Guest Rick Research]

What's the name?

[Claudius]

Paul Kutzner

of U-boot UC-20.

UC-20 was a mine-laying type sub, but early on had her mine laying tubes removed and the space was used for a cargo hold. It ran arms and munitions transport missions in the Mediterranean Sea. It's the "famous" uboot that carried a young camel as a gift back from North Africa to the sub base at Pola.

[Guest Rick Research]

He did not get a discharge as Lt zS dR aD, so I've got nothing on him in the MERL or MOV directories.

[Chip]

Rick,

Here is the rest of the sentence quoted above, which describes the caps.

"Die Vizesteuerleute, Vizefeuerwerker, Vizemaschinisten und Ingenieurasprianten tragen die Uniform der aktiven Steuerleute, Feuerwerker, bezw.Maschinisten, aber an Stelle des f?r Deckoffiziere vorgeschriebenen ?berziehers sowie der M?tze den ?berzieher der Seeoffiziere bezw. Marine-Ingenieure mit den Achselklappen der Offizierstellvertreter und die M?tze der Seeoffiziere bezw. der Marine-Ingenieure mit den f?r dieselbe vorgeschriebenen Abzeichen."

The F?hnrich zur See would have worn a Seeoffizier M?tze with a 2cm wide band. The insignia was smaller.

Claudius,

The Deckoffizier shoulder insignia was stamped gilted metal. I have attached a picture of two different Oberbootsmannsmaat insignia from my collection. The one with the metal insignia is for the dress jacket and the one with the embroidered insignia is a private purchase piece for the blue wool jumper.

[Chip]

Here is what the Obersteuermann insignia looked like. The Vizesteuermann board would be the same only without the crown.

Chip

[Claudius]

Thank you Rick. I can't find anything on him after the war either. I know he was alive to get the Hindenburg cross and some circumstantial evidence to show he was alive in 1938. I was hoping he found a naval job with rank in the TR and therefore be registered somewhere. (at his age, a desk job) While I know where he was from 10/1916 to 1920, I don't know where/when he was born and when he died or where he was buried.

Chip: Thank you for the further info on the insignia. I have seen the cloth badges around and noticed differences in manufacturing, but I didn't realize they were private purchases for their wool jumpers.

[Claudius]

Does anyone know a dealer/individual that has a pair of Vize-Steuerman shoulderboards for sale?

Or a stamped gilt metal Oberbootsmannmaat rating patch?

[Claudius]

Hello again;

I wanted to retrace my steps on this question of "private purchase" ratings patches.

Does anyone know the procedure they followed...I mean, did they just walk into a town when in port and find a retailer to make a patch for their rating?

What cities could they count on to find them? (Presumably port cities)?

Were they available on board their ship/u-boot or could they only access them when they were on leave in Germany?

Was it encouraged to buy them to put on their jumpers for everyday use?

So many questions, sorry I was born with this curiosity .

[Chip]

Claudius,

My assumption has been that most privately purchased naval insignia were purchased in Germany, either in the port cities (Wilhelmshaven, Kiel, etc.) or through mail-order catalog sales. I doubt that too many pieces were made in foreign ports, though I imagine that it was possible at the overseas stations (Kiautschau, etc.).

Chip

[Claudius]

Thank you Chip,

I agree with your thoughts on this.