MJC Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Hi Gents,Any thoughts on this man? Hermann Historica is selling a Zivilabzeichen attributed to him along with this image.Thanks in advance!HH has him listed as a Gruppenfuehrer. Isn't he a Brigadefuehrer? Edited March 6, 2008 by Michael Constandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Don't THEY identify him? Well, this is the sort of thing that as a Sale In Progress should not be discussed to the financial gain of disinterested outsiders.I know him from the LDH4bX roll--to be published later this year. Funny, since by 1936 he was OUT, and yes, Gruppenf?hrer as final rank.Survived the R?hm Purge but forced out in 1935 for"gay interest" as they say on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted March 6, 2008 Author Share Posted March 6, 2008 Rick,That explains the haircut. HH doesn't name him, perhaps they don't know, although their listing implies they do since they had his final rank, and not the rank in the image. Lots of nice goodies in the auction, by the way.Another debt of thanks, redeemable in beer, wine, and now Sangria,Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Hmmmm. What a novel sales concept... NOT identifying their merchandise. I don't know about such things. Is the actual SS membership number supposed to be on the back of the pin? Do they list that, or is THAT their retail strategy secret as well? I'd have assumed he would have had to return it, given the cloud under which he was ejected from the SS and Party. Lucky not to have gone to a concentration camp! Too embarassing to Himmler after the slaughter of the SA High Command, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaymondG Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Hi RickThe number on the back of the pin is just an issue number and nothing to do with the SS number.The problem with this 'group' is that they can very easily be put together and so I would advise caution to anyone looking at it. If you buy it with the thought that they are not linked and are just put together then you will be fine. I have a database of SS pin numbers, but sadly this number is not in it , which is somewhat irritating.It is fascinating that you have identified the man from the photograph and I tip my hat to you for your excellent work.Raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Gregory Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 By 1936, I would expect to see him wearing a Frontk?mpferkreuz on his medal bar. The photo was probably taken a while before the dedication was written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 Thanks for the info on the civil pins--new to me. Having been thrown out of the Party and SS, I cannot imagione that he would have been allowed to retain one, since unless I am mistaken these were SS property and thus would have been taken back.Our ahem Pretty In Black pal here was only a Brigadef?hrer from July to September in 1933-- hence no Hindenburg CRoss yet.And the dedication is unnamed-- for obvious reasons--under the circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaymondG Posted March 7, 2008 Share Posted March 7, 2008 (edited) HiWell, the pin did remain the property of the SS (eventhough the chap had paid for it) and if you left, or were killed, then you had to return the item. I am still not sure how vigorously this was enforced, but I have seen documentation regarding requests for pins to be returned.I can imagine in this gentlemans circumstances they would have wanted the pin back pronto.Raymond Edited March 7, 2008 by RaymondG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJC Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share Posted March 8, 2008 (edited) I pulled his personnel file yesterday and the number on the pin does not match the Zivilabzeichen number in his file. Perhaps he wasn't named in the advert because it would be too easy to disprove the link between the photo and the pin. Edited March 8, 2008 by Michael Constandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaymondG Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I pulled his personnel file yesterday and the number on the pin does not match the Zivilabzeichen number in his file. Perhaps he wasn't named in the advert because it would be too easy to disprove the link between the photo and the pin. It is as I suspected. It is the easiest thing in the world to stick a picture with a pin and call it a group.Raymond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 Not bad for "non-professional" non-auctioneers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vestae Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 Nice photography, can you tell me more bout that item ?thanksSebastien. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 AFTER it has sold. We do not want to GIVE free information to sellers and buyers whose business it SHOULD be to do their own homework before selling an item. Both the consignor and the auction house have already failed to do enough homework to establish that the pin has nothing to do with the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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