Austria-Hungary Austrian Hallmarks On Orders & Medals

[Yankee]

Hello Gentlemen

As I have discovered Austrian Hallmarks can be a very complex topic. It seems after 1866 they were introduced & after WWl still continued however different markings. Can anybody say for certain if the tax release stamp FR in a diamond punch are always to be found on post WWl examples or they can be found on orginal orders as well. The FR tax release stamp with rectangular punch are always to be pre 1921 & F.R (period in between) tax release with rectangular punch to be from 1866-72 period. I know FR gets confused with the firm Rothe on some sale lists which should not be the case...

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely

Yankee

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

yes, austrian marks are sometimes a difficult topic...

The diamond-shaped mark "FR" for Rothe was never found on copies as well as the "FR" in a rectangle (unless they could have been faked... but that's another story.

The post-1918 hallmark of Rothe is "CFR" in a rectangle

The marks "C.F. ROTHE"; "WIEN" we see on breast stars' pins were used earlier and later than 1918, although the difference between an old piece and a copy is evident.

Best wishes,

Enzo

[paul wood]

Hello,

yes, austrian marks are sometimes a difficult topic...

The diamond-shaped mark "FR" for Rothe was never found on copies as well as the "FR" in a rectangle (unless they could have been faked... but that's another story.

The post-1918 hallmark of Rothe is "CFR" in a rectangle

The marks "C.F. ROTHE"; "WIEN" we see on breast stars' pins were used earlier and later than 1918, although the difference between an old piece and a copy is evident.

Best wishes,

Be extremely careful with Austrian pieces. In the 1970's a German dealer who we all know and despise (no names given) got batches of Rothe reissues and stamped them up with multiple false Austrian hallmarks. They still bedevil many, especially American, collections formed at around that period or slightly later. I have a breast star of the Order of M. Theresia which contains these marks in my July auction.

All the best,

Paul

Enzo

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

Paul touched an important point about Austrian Orders and Decorations: Rothe copies, "updated" from some "creative" dealer.

It would be extremely interesting to see the faked hallmarks struck on that MMThO star.

Best wishes,

Enzo

[paul wood]

Hello,

Paul touched an important point about Austrian Orders and Decorations: Rothe copies, "updated" from some "creative" dealer.

It would be extremely interesting to see the faked hallmarks struck on that MMThO star.

Best wishes,

Enzo

Enzo,

When I can get the scanner free, hopefully later today or tomorrow I will oblige.

Paul

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

I must say that the "update" of Rothe copies with fake 1867-1922 silver marks happens in these last years too... and the MMThO-Star is one of most "updated" pieces.

Enzo

[Roman Slivin]

Hello,

These are bad Hallmarks?

Best wishes,

Roman

[Elmar Lang]

The marks look in order, although -in my opinion- it's quite strange that single "A" mark instead of the usual two ones.

An overall view of the order would be fine to see, to definitively ascertain if it's a pre-1918 piece.

Best wishes,

Elmar Lang

[Roman Slivin]

The marks look in order, although -in my opinion- it's quite strange that single "A" mark instead of the usual two ones.

An overall view of the order would be fine to see, to definitively ascertain if it's a pre-1918 piece.

Best wishes,

Elmar Lang

Elmar,

Hallmarks are put on Russian award.

Best wishes,

Roman

[Elmar Lang]

I'd be delighted to see the pictures of the obverse and reverse of that Austrian-made Russian breast star...

Best wishes,

Enzo

[Roman Slivin]

[Roman Slivin]

[Elmar Lang]

Thank you Roman.

This star is of outstanding quality, typical of the Austrian jewelled stars.

Is it in your collection?

Best wishes,

Enzo

[Roman Slivin]

Hi Enzo,

Fortunately at me is not present superfluous 700.000 euro for purchase of this star.

The Russian experts assert, that the star was made in 1930th years.

But have made absolutely other star, to be exact the Star of the Award of Sacred Andrey.

And already presently a star have altered.

Regards,

Roman

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

yesterday, I came back home after many days spent abroad.

After a deeper exam of the pictures, I can also affirm that the star is an alteration from another star: the Bulgarian St.Aleksander star with diamonds is a most possible "base" to start making the present piece.

As said in one of my preceeding messages, it is strange that a single (instead of double) "A" mark appears having been struck on the pin (besides this, the mark doesn't look correct).

A picture is not definitive to give an opinion, but, the star's centre looks of different manufacture (and the stones with a different shade of colour).

In my opinion, this breast star is an assembly of a later Bulgarian star, most possibly made in the '30s, with altered (or fake) marks on the pin.

No wonder that some "creative" would produce such forgeries, since the market of Imperial Russian orders is very "active". Never forget that who'd be going to spend 700.000 Euro could feel VERY angry when discovering that his expensive order is a fake...

Best wishes,

Enzo

[palencia]

Exploring the "macro mode" in my digital camera.....

Hallmarks in a Silbernes Verdienstkreuz

The maker: V. MAYER?S S?HNE, and a hallamark of silver purity: Diana Head 2A

Regards

Edited July 24, 2009 by palencia

[Elmar Lang]

Fine pictures and very helpful details!

Enzo

[palencia]

A Signum Laudis (silberne militarverdienstmedaille) with greyhound head (silver .800) and maker mark (Josef Zimbler)